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Double Standard: Cheaters in the Swing Scene, Male vs Female : Swingers Discussion 38999
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TOPIC: Double Standard: Cheaters in the Swing Scene, Male vs Female
Created by: penbuttons The original post for this thread was deleted.
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That's not a bad idea, it just seems a shame that if you two do accept each other playing alone and will verify it, you can't save the money and post such in your profile. Having to pay a second profile to show you're on the up and up is just one more example of how misrepresentation in the lifestyle has a trickle down effect.

Saint Augustine FL
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Just wondering about everyone thoughts about a couple that has a profile and the male half also having a profile. This is what i am considering. We can swing together or alone so i did not want to contact a couple and explain it was just the male half interested from a couples profile, that kind of sounds shady. I would of course put our couple name so they could check out our profile and if they would like they could meet or talk to the misses so they have some reassurance that i am not a cheating male but a male that has permission. I would love to have your thoughts on the matter. I do not want to get a single male profile if it will seem like someone who just trying to go behind their spouses back and make our couple profile less attractive. I would look like an ass and wasted the money at the same time. i would appreciate any comments.

Clarion PA
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LaJax, that was very well said and yes that scenario you described (and yes we both know there was an attempt to drag us into it) is very unfair to all, including the perpetrator of it. Just don't think that one lady is all that innocent, but maybe I'm wrong. Miss you!

Saint Augustine FL
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Mike, I'm just telling you and others how I think. I do NOT mean to imply nor expect others think the same. But we'll all have our opinions in here. Hope you didn't post expecting all would agree with you. I am crazy in love with my husband. He is my soul mate and everything that is good about me stems from him. I could never play behind his back because he had a mental or physical ailment and yes I certainly would miss sex. But I would rather spend the rest of my life having to give my own pleasure than betray him. Yes, this is hypothetical but it has been put to the test numerous times due to prolonged geographic separation and once due to a physical ailment. On each occasion, my husband and I condoned the other to venture out if we so chose. We didn't, Why? Because we didn't want to . If it was for more than a year or so would I? Perhaps. But it would be with his agreement. If I didn't have his agreement, I truly don't think I would. That said, there but for the grace of God, go I. I do not judge others in the manner they choose to live their lives. A number of gentlemen who frequent these forums seek the same you do, for a variety of reasons. I do not want to play with them, but because they are gentlemen, I do care to call them friend. MY choice.

Saint Augustine FL
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We agree, BacchusnLadywife. How other people behave DOES become our business if it involves us, and especially so when that behavior violates OUR moral standards.

We don't have to condemn cheaters to not want to participate in their cheating. A cheater's standards are his/her own, and they are entitled to them. But so are we, and being involved in cheating is a violation of our standards.

We do, however, sympathize with people in miserably unhappy marriages, and maybe especially with people in marriages which are almost sexless. It must be hell to really still love a person who doesn't want sex anymore.

I'm not really sure what we would do if confronted with a person who really, truly is in a sexless marriage. Once we met for dinner with a man who was married, loved his wife and wanted to stay with her, but whose wife had no interest in sex. He told us he believed that she "knew" he was finding sex elsewhere, but just didn't want to know about it. He was very nice, very gentlemanly, and convinced us that he was telling the truth. We still didn't play with him, even though we both liked him a lot and Mrs. Valovers found him very physically attractive. It just didn't feel right to us. Those damn moral standards!

Jim

South Riding VA
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We subscribe to the saying "treat everyone the way you would like to be treated". We like knowing that we're not hurting anyone directly or indirectly when we play with others. We just choose to not make it easy for someone to hurt someone else. We also don't need the crap that can possibly come with playing with a cheater.

Center Valley PA
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That's a valid question Poly. Let me try to get past what always comes out as my New York attitude and tell you my feelings which coincide with my kinder, gentler hubby's. First off, let me confirm these are opinions, something we're all entitled too. What other people do is absolutely their business and not anything for us to judge. But if we swung with a cheater, then we feel we become a party to the action. We do not condone cheating and by cheating I do not mean consentual separate sex but anything that involves lies and deception that can cause emotional pain to the party left in the dark. We once had a friendship with a gentleman we knew to be a swinger without his live in girlfriend. We respected that was his business and he respected we didn't want to play with him although he was very hot. We knew him from a California winery and had many other interests in common. Two years or so down the road we began getting emails from a lady saying she had met us before and wanted to know more about us and any single male in her area she could play with along with us. I won'd bother with all the dynamics of how it evolved to us figuring out who it was. The point is, it was this man's girlfriend thinking she'd caught him in something and dragging us into it as well. So we got the drama with none of the pleasure. That doesn't work for us but the biggest issue is we don't want even the smallest part of someone else being hurt.

Saint Augustine FL
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This is a topic I have thought about a great deal.

Let me start by saying that I'm sure there is a double standard, because the law of supply and demand dictates it. There are so many men and couples who are slavering to play with single women, and so few single women availalble, that many of them inevitably will overlook the fact that a woman is a cheater or not inquire closely. I also suspect that many single men really don't give a damn, whereas women in the Lifestyle take this issue much more seriously.

I think for most swingers, especially women, the issue of consent is very important. We do not want to be complicit with someone who is deceiving his or her spouse. When I was married, I refused to play with cheaters, which annoyed my bisexual husband sometimes. :) As a single, I will not knowingly meet a married/attached man 1 on 1 even if he has consent, simply because I'm looking for real friendships and it would not be an effective use of my time. But I'll play with married people at parties and invite them to my parties if I know they have consent. There are not many nonplaying spouses who will agree to get on the phone and say "Yes, it's OK with me," but it DOES happen sometimes. There is a man I have known a very long time who played with my late husband and I; his wife would call and ask what time he'd left. :) And once someone in the swing scene knows a person really does have "permission to play," they can vouch for him.

Someone who is in a sexually unsatisfying marriage has a serious problem and I'm not unsympathetic. In fact, I'm a lot more sympathetic than I used to be.

A couple of men I've known a long time have recently been told by their wives that they no longer want to play, and are now in the horrible position of having to choose between their marriages and their sexual selves...if they can't negotiate another option. Both are trying to negotiate a situation where they can play separately with permission. This is the ONLY honorable solution, short of divorce. It works for some people, as long as the couple still have a good sexual relationship.

Where a marriage is asexual, this is also a more honorable solution than cheating, although it's been my experience that in these cases "playing solo" ends up being a prelude to divorce most of the time. If the lack of sex is due to some sort of physical disability in one spouse, this can work. I even know one couple who have sex only with others because their sexual interests are grossly incompatible, but stay together because they still care deeply for each other. But if the lack of sex is due to huge problems in the relationship, or only one spouse wants to stray for incompatibility reasons, this is usually a mortal wound.

I have gotten to be close friends with one man who is in a heartbreaking situation. He has a lot of psychological problems and a complicated history. There are reasons why he didn't begin discovering his sexual self until late in life, why he married someone sexually incompatible but otherwise very supportive before his journey of discovery was complete, and why he ended up in a situation where how much "consent" he has to play solo is ambiguous. He lied about being married when he first poked a toe into the swinging waters, and both angered and hurt me. But I've come to forgive him, and to feel a lot of compassion as he tries to figure out who he is, what he wants and what he's going to do. I think he will negotiate for more explicit consent; whether this becomes a workable, long-term polyamorous situation or leads to a divorce, I don't know.

Granted, there are many cheaters out there who are simply greedy assholes. And I am not asking anyone to abandon their principles, far from it. I'm just pointing out that human beings are complex, and often a cheater's story is more complicated than that. So let's refrain from being too self righteous and nasty.

Springfield VA
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Just read this thread and have to say it is very good. I don't think a double standard exists in the lifestyle in the least. Our opinion seems to be right there with everyone else's. Cheating is cheating and sexual play that involves lies and deception constitutes cheating. I particularly have to agree with Penbuttons that there has to be a physical and/or emotional issue when a 40 year old woman does not desire sex. We have actually had more experiences with woman wanting to cheat with us than men. Well, at least where we absolutely knew that they were married and seeking a clandestine situation. Two of these women belong to this site and three are in others and we would never use their names of course. I can also say that these 5 situations were the only times in the lifestyle I ever felt jealousy and the ladies' desires had nothing to do with actual sex, nor did my jealousy. It was about CUDDLING! You know physical affection before, after or even without sex. My husband is a very touchy, feelly man. Periodically, we've ended up with couples where the sex is over and the other man is sitting on the sofa scratching himself or whatever. So there's my husband compensating while I twiddle my thumbs. I later object to hubby, we don't accept further invitations and the next thing we know is the lady figures out why and wants to see us alone. While we can understand what she lacks, it's still cheating. She needs to work with her spouse to fix what's wrong and we don't need the drama. A sexual problem between any type of couple, married, dating, same sex, whatever can never be fixed by sex with others. It is a time bomb. We have had separate play only in situations of career enforced separation. It was fully consented to by both of us. But if my husband ever took time he could have with me and added lies and deceptions to it, it would break my heart. We would never consider subjecting someone else to that heartbreak by our actions either.

Saint Augustine FL
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Okay, I HAVE to say this...I've been holding out for a long time, but it's gotta come out or I'll burst:

Takingachance: easy on the exclamation points, dude.

L. (sorry, it was driving me crazy)

Ithaca NY
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TOPIC: Double Standard: Cheaters in the Swing Scene, Male vs Female