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TOPIC: Using statistics for risk reduction
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Like I said before,,It does not matter if you use 10 rubbers to fuck another other than your spouse, There is a risk period, I get a kick out of some who will suck a dick or eat pussy without any protection,But will not fuck without it.

HERES YOUR SIGHN.

Mickey.

Rayne LA
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I'm not a statistician but I do know that statistical trends hold up only over a sufficiently large number of events. And unless something is 100%, you never know when that exception to the trend will come up. E.g., the odds of rolling five dice and having them all come up sixes is extremely low, but statistics don't prevent that from happening once or, for that matter, ten times in a row.

Everything we do is a calculated risk, and the harmfulness of the consequences is part of that calculation. Getting a case of the clap would be bad; getting HIV would be real, real bad. If there is a way to vastly minimize that risk, it would seem prudent to do so. The opposite of prudent is imprudent, which is a synonym for foolish, which has other synonyms used in this thread. Each of us should choose the label we want applied to ourselves.

Belle Chasse LA
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Kinddraggon,

I doubt many forming a risk reduction strategy feel safe when evaluating the statistics. That is really the point I think. Peal the layers back and see what the chances really are, often scaring the hell out of yourself in the process.

But I think with knowledge is power. So as you appreciate the risks, you can adjust what you are willing or unwilling to do. I think you also get an appreciation for why others may feel okay with themselves even if they choose to operate at a different risk level. It all comes down to a matter of degree -- there is no right or wrong degree -- only the degree which the individual finds acceptable.

Harmony FL
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Sexy,

You two are very strong to be so open. HSV and HPV I think are often overlooked. I also am curious what the thoughts are.

By what I have read and been told by our doctors, condoms are of very little help in reducing the risk from HSV or HPV. If one looks at how many types of HPV are out there, it is understandable that screening for all of them once a year or more is not very realistic. Also, as you pointed out, HSV screening is very expensive and not typical of a common STD panel.

Our doctor put it this way, "If your going to have sex with other people, you are probably going to be exposed at some point. If you don't want to be exposed, stop having sex with other people. If you don't stop, let me know if you have any type of issue. Most HSV never has an outbreak, which means there is nothing for me to treat. If you do have an outbreak, there are some very good drugs that can help." So far, we have been lucky. No guarantee how long that luck will last.

Harmony FL
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Been trying to follow this post for a couple days and sadly as is the case to often things have sorted to veer off track. I would like to add a few points here and maybe we can all take a breath , and a step back and have a fruitful discussion ? What we want to add here comes from REAL world experience, not what if's or assumptions. Many of you may have read some of our posts in the safe sex forums, we are ghsv1 .. Genital herpes type 1 . We are quite sure we received the "gift" through oral sex with someone who had hsv1 on their lip. We are wondering how the well established facts about herpes both types 1 and 2 play into your consideration of protection and no protection? The hsv1 virus is EASILY spread from mouth to genitals by people who get common cold sores on their face ( remember that those "cold sores" are simply Herpes) and at least 80 percent of the world population has herpes on their face! Now hsv2 which is simply genital Herpes is very common and is spread easily through intercourse even when there are no outward signs of the virus!! Accepted statistics for hsv2 from the cdc are 1 in 4 women and 1 in 5 men have it. It is also a fact that MOST people with the virus don't know they have it or fail to recognize the symptoms. Herpes without any doubt is the MOST common STI, the facts show condoms are of Very little protection since simple skin to skin contact can pass the virus as can oral sex with someone that gets common cold sores.it's a very good bet that most or all of you have played with someone with Herpes, the only way to know for sure if you have genital herpes is through a specific blood test, a standard std test ... Whatever the hell that is... Does not look for Herpes.

As far as testing in general.. Is it not fair to say that the "tested and safe" statement in ones profile is false the 1st time you have sex after an std test? You would have to have an std test AND a blood test for Herpes after every encounter to make such claims, that would be very expensive and no one is going to do that. As far as honesty in the LS goes...In the groups section of sls there are currently 185 HONEST members of the Herpes group(go to groups and search for herpes) that number grows weekly,if there are that many willing to be open about it one can only imagine how many are NOT honest! I realize this is long but we are passionate about informing others and hearing their thoughtful replies.

Indianapolis IN
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Kinddraggon,

By no means am I advocating someone to "remove" layers of risk reduction.

Also, by no means am I a Statistician. It would be great if someone like Leeza or TBR took the ball and ran with it, as I think they are probably much better equipped for this type of exercise.

However, to try and answer your question, I would think the first thing to consider is what are you comparing? Using condoms for anal sure does significantly reduce the risk of contracting HIV. But if the question is, "Is protected anal less risky than unprotected oral," I don't know. Maybe someone that does know can chime in.

Harmony FL
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Earlier in this thread, I tossed out one layer of protection that we found to be very common in the lifestyle -- Excluding Bi-Males reduces HIV risks.

It is a belief that is VERY flawed, which I think is why it makes people like Leeza cringe badly, but is also very common.

There are many logical reasons why people may not want to consider Bi-Males as potential playmates, but believing it significantly impacts HIV risk is not a good one.

As is well known, the highest percentage of HIV is in the MSM group, so it sounds good that staying out of that risk group would help. But lets consider the factors that are likely at play. First, by other studies I posted, unprotected Anal is 18 times more risky than unprotected Vaginal, and unprotected Vaginal is 2 times more risky than unprotected Oral.

If my math is right, that would imply unprotected anal is 36 times more risky than unprotected Oral. Also, there was no difference in risk between receptive male anal or female anal. The way I see it, for swingers that means the risk level is the same for straight couples that include Anal penetration and Bi-male couples that include Anal penetration.

So, a layer of protection that can be taken away is that anal penetration adds a high level of risk for HIV.

These are the types of misconceptions I was hoping to explore with this thread, but it appears too many cannot drop their agendas and have a civilized conversation. Its a shame really. I would think most of use would love to spend some time talking about Risk Management; you never know what gems might be found.

Harmony FL
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@AkronNoFunTimes:

Hi, I thought that everything was already said. Since I don't want to be impolite, I want to thank you for a picture which was displayed in your post. I see an older redneck hiding behind a pair of non-flattering sunglasses showing an obscene gesture.......................... Is that you???? If so, I feel REALLY sorry for you if you cannot express yourself in a more civilized way. Since you don't seem to be capable of having a normal discussion I will end my part right here. Thanks for all the valuable input from you.

Riverside CA
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easland, We made a bareback thread,its in here somewhere I think, If yall were closer we would love to meet yall and get to know yall,We bareback only unless asked to glove up,We were asked to do so once but the guy had no problem fucking my wife without one,Which ofcourse when I saw that,,It was over, From then on we will not ever glove for anyone. If thats what it takes to play with them? Oh well we will move on.

Mickey.

Rayne LA
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Thanks AkronNoFunTimes for letting me know what a fool I am.

Have a nice day now. You will need it after all the YELLING.

P.S. Just to let you know by looking at your profile, looks are NO substitute for brain. Ciao Adios Auf Wiedersehen. Happy swinging

Riverside CA
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TOPIC: Using statistics for risk reduction