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TOPIC: STD and oral in a MFM
Created by: glendaleazcouple
Original Starting post for this thread:
Okay, we're going to be 100% required with others. Oh.... but what about oral?

Okay, can't be much fun sucking on a condom or dental dam.

And there is all this talk of spit or swallow or don't shoot in her mouth. How is any of that applicable if condom is required?

I've swung before, but never thought to worry about oral the way we did about vaginal... and it wasn't only pregnancy risk. The condom for vaginal was to prevent pregnancy AND stop STDs... While the wife is swallowing some guys load.

Okay, I know the lesser ones like herpies, chlamydia, ghonoria, hpv, etc can be transmitted orally. But they won't kill you and most are easily treated.

Well, atully, HPV CAN kill and can be transmitted even with condom because it can be transferred with fingers and can be located on the lips where the pelvis and nuts can be contacting despite condom......

Anyway. I'm mostly concerned with HIV and hepatitus. They kill and can be controlled but not cured. Is there substantial risk of transmission through oral? I know lesbian women are some of the safest because of the extreme difficulty of tounge, vagina transmission. But is the same for cock, mouth? Does saliva and stomach juice kill off the virus? Is the mouth lining thick enough to reduce transmission as compared to the more porus vagina or the down right sponge that is the colon.

Thought on how to handle oral in a MFM VERY apreciated!

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"bareback is condomless sex, vaginal or anal."

Well, then it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to talk about the risks of STD transmission through Bareback sex.

Bareback anal with HIV or Hep B infected person = very likely to get infected.

Bareback vaginal with HIV infected person = more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the swing party.

Bareback vaginal with Hep B infected person = risky..... but can also get by kissing, sweating on each other, etc.

Glendale AZ
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bareback is condomless sex, vaginal or anal.

PG

Louisville KY
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Unprotected anal... if that is what is meant by bareBack, is dangerous.

The gay community is where the term originated, right? 83-86% of new HIV infections are from anal sex. I didn't find the % for protected vs. unprotected. Hopefully is is mostly unprotected.

And 75% of the hep b cases that are transmitted sexually, are anal sex. That means there are more hep b cases transferred non-sexually, then sexually other than anal.

BareFront however... Unprotected vaginal sex where pregnancy is not an issue... I'm missing the risk. I don't see it. Other then the screen and treet.

Maybe I'm missing something. I hope someone will tell me what I'm missing!

Glendale AZ
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dubDubDUb cdc gov /nchstp/dstd/disease_info.htm#facts

Glendale AZ
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I got the info, almost exclusively from cdc. It is all there. Go look it up.

There was a few from university studies and such that I needed to fill in the gaps.

Glendale AZ
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Glen, from which web site did you get this? Thanks for posting some actual data. I predict that the bareback = death crowd will be on you like flies.

From what I've read oral sex unprotected is on the same order of risk as vaginal sex with a condom. In other words, not much.

Herpes and HPV are pretty much universal among the lifestyle crowd. Assume you have it. My guess is that among the lifestyle crowd syph, gon, clam, and others get discovered and treated faster than in a non-swinging crowd, because it's out there for all to see.

Thanks again.

Enosburg Falls VT
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Not wanting to rely on just folklore, superstition and internet forums, I decided to go check stats myself…. Pretty un-American, no?

Anyway, BY FAR, the most common transmittable “reportable” STD in the U.S. is Chlamydia. 1 million NEW cases a year. Yikes. Worse, few get screened and there are few symptoms. It is assumed there are actually 2.8 million infected. Basically 1 out of 200 sexually active people, but closer to 1 out of 30 in women most likely to have multiple partners (using women 15-25 as a proxy).

Second place is gonorrhea, 385K new cases, but with symptoms, most are discovered. 1 in 700. Again, if we assume that is clustered in the most active, we can assume 1 out of 60 highly active will get it each year, but since it is discovered and treated reasonably quickly, MAYBE 1 in 200 highly active people have it at any given time. Get a shot and it goes away.

Syph? 3 in 100,000k. Yeah, more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the swing party than to get it at the party.

As for the non-reportable… Well, hands down is herpes. 45+ million people. 1 in 5 for all people over 12. 1 in 3-4 for women and 1 in 7-8 for men.

In a high risk group… well, if you’ve had more than 5 partners in your lifetime, you’re twice as likely as people with less than 5 partners. In this crowd, you may as well just assume virtually everyone has it. Even if you’ve NEVER had an outbreak, you may have it and be contagious, and NEVER EVER know it. So, even those of us that believe we don’t have it, we almost certainly have it.

Add in those with oral herpes that can be transmitted to genital… forget about it. EVERYONE in the scene has it.

HPV: 20 million Americans have it at any given time, and 6 million get it each year. 50% of all people will get it in their lifetime. Condoms don’t stop it. Anywhere near this scene for any length of time, and you’re gonna get it.

Screen and treat!

Heck, my 17 y/o daughter got it, even though she’s still a virgin. It can even be passed with hand to genital contact during heavy petting, which is how she got it.

If you haven’t got it yet, you will.

Okay, the ugly ones. 1,000,000 hiv cases in the U.S. 750K known and another 250K that probably have it but don’t know it. 50K new cases a year,

BUT, Of the 50K new cases, 50% are from male-male. 33% are through male-female “high risk” contact (anal). 13% IV drug use. 3% where they don’t know if it was male-male or IV. 1% other. 1%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1% of 50K is 500. Holy crud!!!!

Okay.. this one shocked me. Hold onto your socks. A man having unprotected vaginal sex with an HIV positive woman, assuming no other STDs, has less than .1% chance per encounter of contracting HIV. A woman having unprotected vaginal sex with an HIV positive man has a .3% per encounter.

That is nothing. FAR more likely to get killed in a car accident on the way to the swing party then get HIV trough unprotected sex with a HIV positive person at the swing party!

Hep…

Hep C… the one I was worried about. 99% of cases are from sharing needles, being stuck with a needle and being born to a positive mother. Heck there are more confirmed cases of transmission from sharing a razor or toothbrush, then from sexual contact. CDC can’t even confirm it is an STD because the transmission rate is so low!!!

And this is the one I was most worried about?????

Heb B 40K new cases, 2/3rds of that through sex, with 75% of that through high-risk (unprotected anal). 6000 cases a year from non-anal sex.

Again, nothing.

Did I miss any?

So, other than HPV which everyone is going to get, and herpes which everyone already has, and the ones you can get screened and treated for… what am I supposed to be afraid of from unprotected oral or vaginal sex?????

Glendale AZ
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Okay, we're going to be 100% required with others. Oh.... but what about oral?

Okay, can't be much fun sucking on a condom or dental dam.

And there is all this talk of spit or swallow or don't shoot in her mouth. How is any of that applicable if condom is required?

I've swung before, but never thought to worry about oral the way we did about vaginal... and it wasn't only pregnancy risk. The condom for vaginal was to prevent pregnancy AND stop STDs... While the wife is swallowing some guys load.

Okay, I know the lesser ones like herpies, chlamydia, ghonoria, hpv, etc can be transmitted orally. But they won't kill you and most are easily treated.

Well, atully, HPV CAN kill and can be transmitted even with condom because it can be transferred with fingers and can be located on the lips where the pelvis and nuts can be contacting despite condom......

Anyway. I'm mostly concerned with HIV and hepatitus. They kill and can be controlled but not cured. Is there substantial risk of transmission through oral? I know lesbian women are some of the safest because of the extreme difficulty of tounge, vagina transmission. But is the same for cock, mouth? Does saliva and stomach juice kill off the virus? Is the mouth lining thick enough to reduce transmission as compared to the more porus vagina or the down right sponge that is the colon.

Thought on how to handle oral in a MFM VERY apreciated!

Glendale AZ
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(118 posts)
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TOPIC: STD and oral in a MFM