I found a scholarly article on the subject: "Do Condoms Prevent Genital HPV Infection, External Genital Warts, or Cervical Neoplasia? A Meta-Analysis" by L. Manhart & L. Koutsky (American Sexually Transmitted Diseases Association, 2002). Mr. Minuet and I are reading it. Whatever your position on condoms, there appears to be no solid scientific evidence that they actually protect you against anything other than HIV.

As a former college professor who actually TAUGHT statistics, I will assert here that the probability of changing anybody's mind with FACTS is vanishingly small when they don't want to admit they are wrong.

Jim

Read below the assumption that most in the lifestyle probably doesn't use condoms, and I have to agree based on what I've experienced. I know several who say they always use condoms, but I've yet to witness that fact from the majority of them.

Statistics don't do anything for me... Seeing with my own eyes is much more effective.

DandJ

Answer me ONE question::::::::::: If I flip a coin 10 times and each time it's heads, Are the odds higher or lower that the next flip will be tails?

Aw Seduction, if ever there were broken records, you and Perfect are perfect examples.

Thank you, Minuet, for a very nice post. We all are at a loss that your daughter won't be offering us her expertise in statistics. Your point is well taken that there are horrible ways to die, and those of us who have watched loved ones pass away from debilitating, lengthy diseases often feel a quick death, even if unexpected, has its advantages. As you have, we've been subject to some nasty but prosaic infections due to the intimacy of swinging.

I hope from perusing this thread you are fully prepared to face the bully wrath for not towing their condom line, whether or not you use them.

I've been amused by this thread. I wish I could get my stats major college kid to give us all a little tutorial, because I'm not sure if any of the discussion about statistics here is totally accurate. I don't think I'm going to link her to this discussion, however! :-P What troubles me about condoms is the relatively weak protection they give us against the diseases we are most likely to encounter from non-monogamous sex - HSV and HPV. Both of these complexes of diseases are transmitted by skin-to-skin contact, not by a man's cum or a woman's juices. A condom may well not cover up the area that is shedding virus. It has been pointed out many times in these forums that infection with these diseases is widespread in the population, with many people having no symptoms yet still able to pass on the virus. Looking at the stats, more people die from AIDS than from cervical cancer every year, but if you have ever seen anyone die of cervical cancer... I have. My MIL died of it a couple of years ago. The only really effective treatment is surgery in the early stages, and it is incurable once it progresses past a certain point. It is a very harsh way to die. When you consider the total costs of tests, colposcopies, and hysterectomies, we spend a lot on the aftermath of HPV infections. To quote HHS, "Existing estimates range from $1.6 billion to $6 billion, making genital HPV the second most costly STD after HIV infection". One final note to this rambling post: a previous post talked about a friend with genital HSV, describing her as infected with a horrible disease. While any one of us would likely feel that way if we came down with genital herpes, the medical profession does not share our horror. The CDC makes no effort to track herpes, as it is not considered to be a serious health risk. Ask your general practitioner and OB/GYN their opinion, and you are likely to learn that they feel they have way bigger fish to fry. I have taken the time to study and learn a little something about what is out there. I recognize that to swing means accepting a higher risk of disease no matter what kind of protection we use. What about the flu, or the common cold? Heaven knows, condoms do nothing for them! The worst cold I ever had I caught from another swinger - it became a severe sinus infection, and lingered for weeks. If we are going to talk about medical infections of low probability, like being exposed to HIV, then we should toss in the possibility of developing a fatal pneumonia from a virus caught from a sex partner. Yes, we are exposing ourselves to other people and the infections they may carry. And yes, our protections are imperfect.

DandJ

Answer me ONE question::::::::::: If I flip a coin 10 times and each time it's heads, Are the odds higher or lower that the next flip will be tails?

Perfect, no matter how many times you flip that coin, it's not the way to get tail.

Seduction, again, if you cared at all about what the OP asked for, you wouldn't be posting here at all.

Like Perfect, what you care in this thread about is passing harsh judgment against barebackers. And you've done it with the style and efficacy of Perfect.