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Let's try it again : Swingers Discussion 1238721011
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TOPIC: Let's try it again
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"Unless you're a naive dope and believe that all of humanity is truthful. ;) "

Exactly. But then, I am skeptical of most situations, even people I THINK I can trust.

Quakertown PA
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Lick, be real. The only way to reduce risk is condoms? It is not even the most effective way. The most effective way is to stop swinging and be sexually monogamous.

Circumcision reduces risk. Vasectomies reduce risk because there are less cells in the semen and HIV predominately infects cells. You claim there is no effectiveness in screening. That means if you were to have sex with everyone who asks to have sex with you, it is no more risky than considering any other factors. Reducing the number of your partners reduces risk. Get real, Lick.

Enosburg Falls VT
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I think it's interesting that in these two threads dealing with barebacking, the one who deals most with actual risks and actual risk statistics is one of the older posters in the crowd. Most of the rest of the posts have been either philosophical or rants about how anyone who barebacks is nuts.

I'm glad Licks is moved to call it a debate of logic. This is also a debate about maximizing pleasure and what risks are worth taking. We all take some risks by swinging. How to reduce risks and maximize pleasure at the same time is a trade off with different answers for different people.

Enosburg Falls VT
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Well said PDGunther. We started swinging in the pre-AIDS era and yes we didn't use condoms but with that said It is a must now. We were friends with one couple when STD's started making headlines any couple we've met after that we use condoms. There's really no excuse not to.

Cape May Court House NJ
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We "assume" people may have something, including ourselves, hence why we use condoms. It is a safeguard. Also, birth control, even if mine is supposed to be 99 percent effective, is another reason to use condoms. It is good to "assume' people have something and use protection, than have no protection at all, and end up saying 'oops!' This applies to the vanilla world too, not just the lifestyle, because there are crossovers, where people in the lifestyle meet vanillas to do things with.

Quakertown PA
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I read an article not to long ago about the rise in STD's in the 55 and over catagory. They are linking it to the popularity of these new retirement communities that people now have an easier time getting to meet people than if they had stayed living at home in the family home.

Bridgeport PA
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We older folks have lived a very different life as far as HIV than younger folks. We enjoyed sex pre HIV. Some of us were swingers pre HIV. We watched as slowly HIV was discovered. At first there was media resistance to the idea, then the "it's a homo disease" attitude. After that we witnessed the flip to media hype and hysteria over it. That has resulted in the "loaded gun" posts here.

Some of us did extensive research to educate ourselves. Some of us have a perspective of not growing up under the media hype and hysteria and have the perspective of watching the media underreaction turn to overreation. This old fart has actually gone to medical libraries and read the studies in medical journals.

My point is that growing up with it always having been there offers a different perspective than living both before it and through it. There are old farts who actually have been fluent in HIV research during this whole discovery period that still is going on. We can have differening opinions on actual risk. And respect can be accorded those different opinions without agreeing to them.

Enosburg Falls VT
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PD here is a quote: "An estimated 75% of the reproductive-age population has been infected with HPV (Koutsky, 1997)." From the CDC website.

For herpes: "According to the latest U.S. data from 1999 - 2004, 57.7% of Americans ages 14 – 49 years are infected with the HSV-1 virus, the main cause of oral herpes and some cases of genital herpes. About 17% of Americans in the same age range test positive for the HSV-2 virus, the main cause of genital herpes." This is from the University of Maryland Medical Center website, also found on the CDC website, but not in as concise a form.

Here is a 1999 to 2002 study of pregnant women from the CDC website: "Overall, HSV-1 seroprevalence was 63%; HSV-2 seroprevalence was 22%; infection with both HSV-1 and HSV-2 was 13%, and HSV seronegativity was 28%."

Read the last figure again. Seronegativity was 28%, meaning not infected with either HSV-1 or HSV-2. Most people do not have symptoms from herpes. The population of swingers must be assumed to have as high or higher rate than the general population or pregnant women. Assume you are infected!

Enosburg Falls VT
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I have to dispute the fact that "everyone" has been exposed or has some form of herpes. I've never even had a cold sore. I did know a bi woman who was a carrier of herpes II, and she never knew, until she passed it on to a girlfriend. The bi woman never had symptoms.

Quakertown PA
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You're going to die one way or another so there's no point in attempting to take caution. That's some interesting logic...can't say that I agree with it though.

Union Grove NC
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TOPIC: Let's try it again