And your attitude, which is shared by Mitt, is what people don't like, and why he won't be President."

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tbr, Don't be so sure about that.

And which third party candidate do you favor?

NEWSFLASH: Mittens, grimace, Rick and Obama do not care about you. There is no real plan to 'save the economy', 'balance the budget', 're-invigorate the middle class' or any other such appealing platitudes. Mittens, grimace, Rick and Obama are brought to you by the hardcore criminals that head Wall Street and the financial sector and the Federal Reserve Bank. They work for the predatory ruling class. So there are no plans to rebuild the country, secure the borders or implement a universal health care plan that actually benefits the peasantry. Have you not figured this out yet? So either we collectively vote for 3rd party candidates (or those not popular with the media) or we can be delusional and act like we're part of the establishment and then go into bondage because we keep voting for them.

By the way,

My answers to your questions are *my* answers. Of course the government assumes many other roles such as directly manipulating the business world via taxes, levees, grants, regulations and laws which are intended to assist and/or damage particular businesses, people or industries. It's horseshit that they do it in my opinion, but obviously you and I have different opinions.

"Does the business owner owe anything (other than a paycheck) to his workers?" No, unless they are contractually obligated. Why don't employees owe anything to their employers? Perks, awesome working environment, benefits, etc are all things employers offer in the attempt to attract and retain the kind of employees they want, not out of some sense of altruism. "Just because someone has the right to do something, should they do it?" If they have the right to do it, it's not your business as to whether or not they should. Certainly some decisions are better than others, both for themselves and others. "Where is the line between the right of the individual and the rights of society?" What rights does society have at all? Just a few (although large) basics I imagine, such as imposing taxes, extracting adults for military service, and holding individuals responsible for abiding by the laws. But you and I have no rights as a society to demand a business or other individual do something for me. "What is the government's role in all of this?" Primarily to protect the rights of individuals, particularly in respect to rights of due process, contract enforcement, protection of personal property etc. A few others, such as preventing outright monopolies, collusion, fraud, deceptive practices, and holding people and businesses responsible for damages inflicted on others. Out-competing is not "damages". Neither is letting go of employees they don't need or want. An employee is a service provider to an employer. You change service providers for things all the time (or at least you can) - where you shop, possibly cable, phone, insurance etc. You do so on a dime without any guilt whatsoever. Why don't you have responsibility to them? Where's your loyalty? They've been your cable company for 10 years - and you just let them go?

Well, I've presented several different ideas to you, and you seem to be hooked on the right of the person to do what he wants with his possessions.

The truth is much more complex than that, but you seem to want to see things in black and white...

Does the business owner owe anything (other than a paycheck) to his workers?

Just because someone has the right to do something, should they do it?

Where is the line between the right of the individual and the rights of society?

What is the government's role in all of this?

Well I disagree with you that my premise of business owners being free to do what they want is faulty. This went back specifically to buying another and parting it out, with the idea being that the owner can sell it if they want to and they are free to do so. The idea that they shouldn't be is outright offensive to me. I wouldn't call you a pinko commie. Mouch was a fascist (and a crony capitalist at the extreme - he benefited enormously from his power). A communist would advocate for the expropriation of businesses for the government, not just controlling them. I don't believe you want to do that (I don't think!?!). I guess I don't understand what it is you DO think businesses should be allowed to do and who decides what the rules are. By the way - I'm not talking about things like businesses being free to use a cattleprod on slow-moving workers......

"I didn't mean to make this about Atlas Shrugged and don't intend to." But in fact, it is. "I'm not trying to pester you here, but I'm asking again... if you don't like the attitude of businesses being free to do with their businesses as they see fit, what is the alternative?" Your premise is faulty. Businesses can not, and should not, be "free to do with their businesses as they see fit." To think that they should is childish. Like Ayn Rand's philosophy, it is attractive, but no one would really like to live the reality. If you want to see how to do it differently, all you have to do is open your eyes. Look around. There are dozens of different ways to do it. Now before you start calling me a pinko commie, I am as much against Wesley Mouch as I am against Ayn Rand. Like the Laffer curve, the best way is somewhere in the middle, and moves around so much that as soon as you get there, the sweet spot has moved. But certainly, what we are doing now does not work for more and more people....

I think I have an idea of how you think things should be, but I'd rather not put words in your mouth or make presumptions. We're headed out to dinner so I might be some time before I return..... I don't know where you read who Wesley Mouch is, but in case it was thin, his role in the story is originally that of lobbyist, but he is elevated to a position of a de facto economic dictator (i.e. placing taxes and grants where he feels they should go, seizing control of businesses, place whatever rules he likes on how businesses can operate, etc). Basically, Wesley Mouch tells businesses when they can hire and fire, sell, merge, etc. The things I was listing. I didn't mean to make this about Atlas Shrugged and don't intend to. The name just popped into my head while listing those things.

You really don't see it, do you?

I have to go pick up my daughter, I'll address when I get back...