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FORUMS General Discussions Politics What would a true politics of Jesus Christ entail for the USA if politicians heeded God's Word
TOPIC: What would a true politics of Jesus Christ entail for the USA if politicians heeded God's Word
Created by: sappholovers
Original Starting post for this thread:
George W. Bush claims Jesus Christ as a guide and leader in terms of political values. So many people talk about the USA as a place that has to embrace Christian values.

So what would a true politics of Jesus Christ entail if government tried to follow Christ's teachings?

Christ had two main "political" points:

1. Don't worshiip any other god, but the true God.

2. Care for the poor, the weak, the oppressed.

Of course, Christ was also a pacifist, and not a war-monger or fear-monger.

So in my view, a true politics of Jesus Christ would have government fighting first and foremost a war on poverty.

For Christ, the axis of evil would not be Iraq, Iran and North Korea, but 1) poverty, 2) sickness 3) war.

Better yet, for Christ evil is an absence of love.

Would would loving thy neighbor and caritas--the principle of charity--look like if it became a primary political value?

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Lucky: "I know the civil war was more complcated than just slavery..."

I know that too, and I've been saying it from the beginning, but I've also said that the debate over slavery was the key issue, the most significant dividing point between North and South....

So you take one quote from Lincoln, and you keep failing to put it into context. Yes, he said at the beginning of the war that his intention was not to interefere with slavery in the South (he was sworn to uphold the Constitution), but he--and the Republican Party of which he was the nominee--was opposed to the extension of slavery in the west.

In addition, if you read Lincoln's major speeches in 1857 and 1858, as people in the South did, it's so easy to see that Lincoln himself was personally opposed to slavery, and he thought it was evil and wrong, and the South knew how Lincoln felt about slavery....that he, personally, wanted it abolished, although as President, he had to uphold the Constitution regarding the sanction of slavery for the South.

Lucky: A good historian would read a lot of what Lincoln said about slavery instead of just harping on one quote, which must be read in context, and, of course, you ignore what Lincoln said in the his 2nd Inaugural address.

Keep studying the Civil War through googling and websites on the internet.... but cite the passages when you quote them. Better yet, go read a good book on the Civil War, e.g., James MacPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom" or Shelby Foote's multivolume history of the Civil War. Try also Garry Wills, "Lincoln's The Gettysburg Address: The Words that Remade America."

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Looks good for dems really I think he can beat McCain. infact he can beat Hillary.

Imperial MO
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Lucky:

The debate is not where the Civil War was more complicated than just slavery. You are squirming like a toad on a frying pan.

Perfect Match said that slavery was not the cause of the Civil War, or he and you have been saying that slavery was not primary issue between North and South...or the reason why the South split after Lincoln's election...

I've never said the Civil War was only about slavery. Try finding where I said that. I just said that American politics from 1850-1860 was fixated around slavery, people called it the irrepressible conflict before 1860, and Lincoln's opposition to the expansion of slavery into the territories was the key, but most important reason for Southern opposition to him....and their decision to split once he got elected.

You make up straw horses and then attack them. You put words in my mouth and then attack them.

You have little or no fairness or integrity about you in the way you argue as far as I can see.

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Thanks but no thanks read it. doesnt matter you dont want me to give you my racist opinion on what he was saying. Slavery should have never been an issue in the first place.

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Lincoln on slavery:

SLAVERY

If as the friends of colonization hope, the present and coming generations of our countrymen shall by any means, succeed in freeing our land from the dangerous presence of slavery; and, at the same time, in restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, with bright prospects for the future; and this too, so gradually, that neither races nor individuals shall have suffered by the change, it will indeed be a glorious consummation. --July 6, 1852 Eulogy on Henry Clay

Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man's nature -- opposition to it is in his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow. --October 16, 1854 Speech at Peoria

The Autocrat of all the Russias will resign his crown, and proclaim his subjects free republicans sooner than will our American masters voluntarily give up their slaves. --August 15, 1855 Letter to George Robertson

You know I dislike slavery; and you fully admit the abstract wrong of it. --August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed

The slave-breeders and slave-traders, are a small, odious and detested class, among you; and yet in politics, they dictate the course of all of you, and are as completely your masters, as you are the master of your own negroes. --August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed

I believe this Government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided. --June 16, 1858 House Divided Speech

I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any Abolitionist. --July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

Now I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil... --October 7, 1858 Debate at Galesburg, Illinois

When Judge Douglas says that whoever, or whatever community, wants slaves, they have a right to have them, he is perfectly logical if there is nothing wrong in the institution; but if you admit that it is wrong, he cannot logically say that anybody has a right to do wrong.

--October 13, 1858 Debate at Quincy, Illinois

This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave.

--April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce

An inspection of the Constitution will show that the right of property in a slave in not "distinctly and expressly affirmed" in it.

--February 27, 1860 Speech at the Cooper Institute

We believe that the spreading out and perpetuity of the institution of slavery impairs the general welfare. We believe -- nay, we know, that that is the only thing that has ever threatened the perpetuity of the Union itself.

--September 17, 1859 Speech in Cincinnati, Ohio

You think slavery is right and ought to be extended; while we think it is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us.

--December 22, 1860 Letter to Alexander Stephens

One section of our country believes slavery is right, and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong, and ought not to be extended.

--March 4, 1861 Inaugural Address

I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling.

--April 4, 1864 Letter to Albert Hodges

One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war.

--March 4, 1865 Inaugural Address

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He keeps on and on and says nothing....Same as you no substance. I noticed he skirted my previous post. So who care I am a loser from Missouri. You know something your right. But the good thing here is that I dont have to read his lies and fabrications any longer.

I know the civil war was more complcated than just slavery. To many people died that had no interest in owning slaves.

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Lincoln was anti-slavery before he was elected. As President, he felt it was his duty to uphold the Constitution and allow for slavery to remain in the slave states given the Constitution's sanction for slavery.

But throughout his writings one can find him expressing opposition to slavery and wishing for its abolishment.

But at least now you seem to be agreeing with me that Lincoln was opposed to expanding slavery, and this position is what led the South to split when he got elected.

Let me give you an assignment: Read Lincoln's speech on Dred Scott, his House Divided speech, his debates with Douglass. Stay tuned. I'll give you some quotes by Lincoln on slavery for you to chew on..... or hide from....

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“ I do declare that I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so. And I have no inclination to do so.” Lincolns words. Not from Wiki.....

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Lucky:

You have turned an insinuation into an attack on you, your school, and your family. You were saying how you were a history major at the University of Missouri, and given what you were saying about American history, I could do nothing but question--and even insult--what you learned at University of Missouri.

The more I see you post, the more I understand that your misunderstanding of the Civil War had nothing to do with you learning history at a college in an ex-slave state.

I wanted to give you an out for your appalling misinformation and ignorance.... so I was insinuating some blame on a history teacher you had or history courses you had.

But now I see you should assume full responsibility for your ignorance. You were probably taught the history of the Civil War correctly, but for some reason you were zonked out, asleep, or thinking about some babe in the front row.

I take back any insult to the University of Missouri. I had no grounds for judging their history department besides looking at one of its products.

That is not a sufficient basis to judge University of Missouri.

I still have a basis--more than a thin slice of information--to make judgments about your ability to read and understand history...and why you twist and turn so much...and show not much clue about a historian thinks..... or a how a history major should have learned to study history.....

I'm assuming you have some block about understanding antebellum American history and the politics that led to the Civil War.

You tell me why you are blocked? I will not jump to conclusions, although you've given me more than enough to raise suspicions, e.g., calling Lincoln an "asshole" and writing about the North "raping" the South.

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No he didnt he ran on no expansion of slavery not abolishing it. Had he done so he would not have won the election. His first inagural he states as much.

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TOPIC: What would a true politics of Jesus Christ entail for the USA if politicians heeded God's Word