What is the definition of victory in Iraq: Swingers Discussion 752181031

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What is the definition of victory in Iraq: Swingers Discussion 752181031

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TOPIC: What is the definition of victory in Iraq

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User Details are only visible to members.	JNM this is a new low for you you must be a real asshole to talk about someones wife. I never had any respect for you even from day one,if I remember right I think it was perfect that said you were ok back then.
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User Details are only visible to members.	JNM we can understand you getting bored looking at a nice female ass. I think you would prefer to see Mr akrons ass huh
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User Details are only visible to members.	well it was not really a change in original question. i assume that once u have victory you get out so to speak. so when i wrote the more interesting question to me was how to get out that was just a different way of expressing the op. i was also drunk last nite!! and i do believe u can separate it. once u are in a war, the reasons for going are different than what constitutes victory because i believe as has been outlined below (see akron's post) the main reasons to go were to remove a dictator, determine status of WMDs, set up a government, etc....arguably those things were all accomplished. 38 says..it's about removing those individuals, groups and govts that provide financial and logistical support to radical islamics.. it was posts like that which interested me in asking... how do u determine when that is done? does not that creat a scenerio where u can never leave?
Philadelphia PA			Username hidden (5330 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"the more interesting question to me is to how to get out.." I think that's a fair question. As of right now it is kind of irrelevant, since the political will to leave Iraq isn't quite there yet. Eventually our leaders will be forced to order the US military out, both from pressure within the ranks, the higher echelons of the military, and the citizenry at large (to say nothing of our increasingly indebtedness to the Chinese, who are essentially funding this war). But whenever the time comes to 'get out', the 'how to' part (which you say is the interesting question) will be a matter of how to handle the logistics properly. The US military will be able to withdraw with relative ease. After all, even with the occasional IED, nobody messes with the army or the marines in a direct way. And once it is clear that they are leaving, there will be no incentive from the part of the insurgents to interfere with that process (quite the contrary). The people who will be in great danger will be those Iraqis who collaborated with the US occupation. Therefore, expect massive numbers among the ranks of these individuals, and their families, to migrate to the US. Many of the military officers in charge of the thankless task of managing the withdrawal from Vietnam are still around, so we can draw on their technical expertise. But even under the best scenario, expect a few painful scenes of helicopters flying off embassy rooftops, etc. Notice, by the way, that your updated question 'how to get out' is different from your original question 'definition of victory'. I agree that we can discuss how to get out without regard to why we got in. But if you want to go back to defining victory then you will have no choice but to tackle the politically thorny question of why we got in, because victory will be the ability to achieve our real goals. That's what I tried to do earlier when I outlined the oil-related conditions that would be important from the US perspective.
Pittsburgh PA			Username hidden (1153 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	well i thought the question of why we attacked iraq was something was too politicized.. we are already in the game so to speak. the more interesting question to me is to how to get out..
Philadelphia PA			Username hidden (5330 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	dzzy, you said in your opening post: "I am interested in how you would define victory in Iraq. ...This post is not a commentary on the reasons for going to war " My question to you is, do you really think you can separate the two? In other words, don't you think that victory needs to be defined in terms of the original goals (as in, "if you achieve the original goals, you win, if you don't, you lose"). It seems to me that a more direct way of asking your question should have been "why did we attack Iraq?". Is that question not patriotically correct these days?
Pittsburgh PA			Username hidden (1153 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Heard it before. Didn't suffice then either. Those sort of distortions of truth and outright lies are the primary reason the neocons are are losing their foothold of power in this country. You can only pee on the populace so long before they object and start peeing on you.
Goose Creek SC			Username hidden (1690 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"If any liberal can explain to me how they can keep us from going back into Iraq if we leave tomorrow, I would like to hear it...." I will take up that challenge just as soon as one of you neocons adequately explains why we invaded the sovereign country of Iraq this time. If we have to "go back in" at some future date I imagine it will be under equally as illegitimate circumstances as it was this time.
Goose Creek SC			Username hidden (1690 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"war for oil is the mantra of the very very stupid." and it's also the guiding principle of the very smart...and powerful. Powerful, as in, well...power. From Physics 101 (or is it 102?) power and energy are intimately related. Please somebody young remind me of the formula...but regardless, power-seeking empires have always set their sights on the source of energy of their times. Before oil it was seed, and there may have been some other storage mechanisms in the interim (although I doubt it). Seeds, of course, store the energy that will propel the seedling with force out into the harsh reception with which nature awaits all of us. It's a tiny thing, but in relative terms (to its weight, say), it's a lot of energy. Humans figured this out very, very early. When visiting the coastal towns in NE Spain, where all of my extended family lives, I'm always amazed at the sturdy constructions of the centuries-old observation towers. They were built so communities along the coast could get an early warning when moors were approaching. And, I asked, what would people do when aggressors where coming in? The answer: everybody would rush to bring their grain into the tower (a strongly fortified structure), and then rush inland for their personal safety. It was ok to let the moors to pillage all of their possesions, except for the inhabitants themselves, and...their grain. Grain. Where the energy is. People can delude themselves all they want about having trascended this or that (all empires spout the same propaganda, about somewhow being 'different' from the previous empires). Don't be fooled. It's about energy (again, review your basic physics: where power comes from), power seeks energy to perpetuate itself. It's just as inevitable as 2+2. You get the gist (and if you don't, just go back to Fox News and Bingo).
Pittsburgh PA			Username hidden (1153 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	I wonder how many of you Libs drive and have electric at home.My guess is all you that are crying about this war being for oil use as much or more oil than we do.
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TOPIC: What is the definition of victory in Iraq