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TOPIC: What_is_self_defense
Created by: Robert_Hil
Original Starting post for this thread:
Ok, we have all been debating this TM vrs Zimmerman trial and Zimmermans entire defense is that he was being attacked.

I don't know about you, but everyone who has ever had a part in my upbringing has always said that defense is deescalation, that defense is not giving chase, following, escalating, using fighting words or words which anger.

So if Zimmerman left the safety of his car or well light area to follow TM, how can he possibly claim self defense? He was clearly the aggressor.

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AZ:

Exiting your vehicle and challenging someone isn't defense, it is offense and it ought not be a defense for killing someone with a fire arm. Much less someone half your weight and age.

Any such person who does this are a coward, aggressive coward who you would allow to murder anyone and claim self defense. This is why you have strong anti-gun movements in this nation, because you WON'T hold gun owners accountable for bad decision making.

So kiss your guns good buy, kiss stand your ground laws good buy. Because you won't hold murders like Zimmerman accountable for bad decision making (aggressive actions) which lead to deaths, the public will demand more gun control methods which aren't direct assault on gun ownership... But it might as well be.

Hazle Township PA
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The problem with your argument Robert is that you want to give Martin carte blanch to act in any way he saw fit once he became aware of Zimmerman following him and that’s not how the law works. Even if you assume Zimmerman was the aggressor, and that still hasn’t been proven, then under your idea of self-defense Martin should have attempted to deescalate as well which he clearly didn’t.

Simply following someone and challenging them as to why they are in a certain area, while stupid and ill-advised, it isn’t illegal and doesn’t allow for a physical attack in response. Even assuming Zimmerman started the physical altercation, IMHO once Martin escalated the amount of force he used he gave Zimmerman the legal right to use deadly force.

Peoria AZ
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If a defendant was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked where he or she was allowed to be, then the defendant has no duty of retreat and has a right to use force, or even deadly force, if the defendant (under those circumstances) reasonably believed that his or her use of force was necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm. This is the key provision of Florida’s “Stand your Ground” law.

Berryville VA
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Robert,United States Supreme Court cited several common law treatises for the proposition that "where the accused embarks in a quarrel with no felonious intent, or malice, or premeditated purpose of doing bodily harm or killing, and under reasonable belief of imminent danger he inflicts a fatal wound, it is [manslaughter,] not murder." Wallace v. United States.

Berryville VA
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Ok, we have all been debating this TM vrs Zimmerman trial and Zimmermans entire defense is that he was being attacked.

I don't know about you, but everyone who has ever had a part in my upbringing has always said that defense is deescalation, that defense is not giving chase, following, escalating, using fighting words or words which anger.

So if Zimmerman left the safety of his car or well light area to follow TM, how can he possibly claim self defense? He was clearly the aggressor.

Hazle Township PA
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(8396 posts)
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TOPIC: What is self defense
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