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Virginia Tech - How can 21 Kids be dead in a Gun Free Zone : Swingers Discussion 772291011
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TOPIC: Virginia Tech - How can 21 Kids be dead in a Gun Free Zone
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Sorry for the long yelling session again, When I see what happened at Va. Tech. (which by the way my ex-wife is an alumni) and I have ties via her with the school. I'm a huge fan of Va. Tech football and basketball. It effects me. Do I try to find a solution where unneccesary deaths can be avoided. Yes I do, is it fear? Maybe. I don't know how those families are feeling, I can only image. I know the depths I searched in my soul after my incident. Being blamed and being called a murder is something that "sticks to the wall". In the heat of a moment things flash before your eyes and you are placed in a situation where little time is available to think. I was placed in a situation where I had to act, and it cost me dearly. The training I had made it an instinctive reaction, and I guess one could consider it a reaction to survival. Even though I wasn't his initial target. That was 20 years ago, and though I survive I still live with that, maybe why I am divorced. We always had issues after that. I guess if my posts are based in fear in your eyes, then maybe they are. Do I ever what to be in that situation again? No, absolutely not! Do I want my boys to go through something like this? Absolutely not. Is there an easy answer/solution. Somewhere, but greater minds then mine will have to solve that question. I don't have the answer. Do I feel that everyone carrying is the answer, especially in high school and college ? No, I think would definitely open a can of worms. So your post to me about not knowing what I'm talking about pissed me off. You'll probably say I'm full of shit here and that is your perogativeto that. You have no respect for me because I hope a better solution exists out there, so be it. I hope you nor anyone else ever have to experience anything similar to this. It may seem like an easy thing to accept, and I'll openly admit here that I doubt the killing of Cho would effect many. But you never know. There, now you know why I have a disdain for this as well as hunting and innocent people dying from the practice. No its not the gun, its the person holding it.

Allentown PA
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Perfect--Fair enough, I understand that. If you look back I also said I was playing a devils advocate and I try to look at all three sides of something. Your side my side and somewhere in between lies the truth. I'm not so head strong that I can't see another point and possibly change my mind. Let me share a story with you. In 1986 I was a police officer and killed a mexican gang member shooting him twice in the chest. After the intenal investigation I was cleared but my conscious never did. My wife who is now my ex, and I were married just over a year when this happened and our relationship suffered, as did I. I went to counseling weekly and I couldn't get the image of shooting someone out of my head. I kept trying to find the answer as to how I could have done things differently. Taking the life of someone is not an easy thing. Though I was in Desert Storm I had nothing to do with dropping the bombs the f-18 carried. So in that sense it never bothered me. I never saw the outcome. The image of this guy bleeding out and gasping for air and calling for his mother and God haunts me now. If I had a tasser could the outcome have been different? If I was in a different position could I have done something different? If my partner was in a different position could he have eleviated the threat? If I hadn't reacted the way I did would I be here today to see my boys grow? Seeing how the family reacted at the hospital, me knowing that I took someone's son away from them is hard to swallow. Though he probably would have killed me and my partner at the drop of a hat really doesn't elimanate or excuse how I felt/feel. It took me several years to accept my role in that situation. I resigned in 1987. We needed to get away and we moved here to Pa where I attended college, finished my degrees where I had planned on being a lawyer. I was convinced not to follow that path so with my history degree I decided to try my hand at teaching. Well it takes a special person to deal with some of the kids in todays society. I knew that either I left or I would be in jail for killing someone or I would be dead. So I chose to leave.

Allentown PA
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atown,

Never been in the navy, there are however other branches of the united states armed services one can recieve training in combat. I am a disabled gulf war vet and I have seen combat.

can you gaurentee that if someone shot him that he'd be dead.. of course not, I sell stocks now i can't promise you the markets goign to be up either. I promise you if he was only wounded him he would run away, the kid wasnt "tough" and even if he did maybe he would've bled out before he killed to many more people.... had I wounded him i would've stalked him and finished him off... but that's me.

guess my point is I'd rather try "something" than be his little lamb like victim. Was talkign to the mrs today and I dont' know when we became a nation of victims, and it bothers me. We sure aren't the nation that won ww2 or that tamed the west or fought the civil war or founded the country. We are basically a nation of pussys now. IMHO>

The only real good that came out of this shooting is the kid ended himself, at least this way i don't have to listen to lawyers and shrinks say "society made me do it" or "i had a bad childhood' or any of the other physco babble that is all bullshit.

Lake Worth FL
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"I believe that had someone been there with their own firearm that was properly trained to use it things could've ended "better" instead of 32 dead innocent people maybe we'd have 20, that's still not good, but i think anyone would agree that it would be better than 32." I agree. Never said it couldn't have been. So you also feel that a school is a place where guns should be permitted? High school or college? Let's see, rape is against the law and it still happens. People are able to make home made bombs, I believe that is illegal. The psyche of an individual will decide what happens, they dictate the circumstances of the situation, till you get the upper hand. Question is can you get the upper hand, can you guarantee that?

I will pose to you this, had I or someone with the training I received as a young man in the military with my own glock and he walked into my classroom, one of use would've been dead, maybe me maybe him but it would be 50/50. Before I infer the wrong thing here, are you suggesting you are an ex-navy seal? That is the impression I got earlier. 50/50, fair enough. You lose can you state for a fact things wouldn't have escalated to more dying? Let's say you wound him, that would only piss him off and make his resolve stronger to do his desire. My opinion of course. It is possible you wound him and he cowers in a corner. Just answer, is it possible.

"I have been shot at, and i'll tell you after it happens to you the first 20 times it's not as scarey and you react how you are trained.... that is "cover, asses, acquire, shoot". Notice i said "not as scarey" before you jump down my throat calling me rambo." Why would I jump down your throat? I respect that you have an opinion and are able to express it. I don't criticize for having differing opinions, just how its refuted by others.

You haven't called anyone names or tried to belittle anyone. I just don't understand the mentality of some and why they have to resort to those tactics to try and establish their beliefs. Guess it makes them feel better.

Allentown PA
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Atown,

I believe that had someone been there with their own firearm that was properly trained to use it things could've ended "better" instead of 32 dead innocent people maybe we'd have 20, that's still not good, but i think anyone would agree that it would be better than 32.

I will pose to you this, had I or someone with the training I recieved as a young man in the military with my own glock and he walked into my classroom, one of use would've been dead, maybe me maybe him but it would be 50/50.

I have been shot at, and i'll tell you after it happens to you the first 20 times it's not as scarey and you react how you are trained.... that is "cover, asses, acquire, shoot". Notice i said "not as scarey" before you jump down my throat calling me rambo.

As far as running for political office... thanks no I'll pass. And i really dont' want to launch anyone out of a torpedo tube.... unless it's an arab terrorist.. that could be entertaining.

The point is.... things could've possibly ended better had someone else shot cho instead of waiting until he killed enough people and ended himself. And I don't know anyone that would want to be a "hero" that's a term people put on other people, the things you do to gain that label are generally things you do to "survive"

Feel free to beat me up now

Lake Worth FL
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They had NO chance with otherwise. You keep saying things COULD have been worse. Just tell me how things COULD have been better the second after Cho started shooting

Do I need to post the definition of 'Could'?

Ok big dog. Guess you need to check your dog ears, maybe pay more attention instead of enjoying Debjacks head up your ass. Now I know why you think the same, you share the same brain.

I already agreed with you that they couldn't be better. Once he entered that building things were bad for those there. Once the first person got shot things got worse and progressed. Till you prove that you could stop him, oh wait a minute, or anyone else for that matter, you're just a poodle trying to be a great dane. Delusion of grandeur hoping one day to be the hero.

And if you want to post the definition of could, go ahead nothings stopping you. But while you're at it look up prove/proof. You haven't done any of that.

I'll ask again, Why are you here with the superior intellect? Why aren't you out changing the world?

Bow wow wow yippee oh yippee a

Allentown PA
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Well it sounds like if i was in the front row i would have died as the gun man walked in and started shooting. But i never sat in the front row. So in the back i might have been wounded. I have been shot at before. I did draw and did not fire as i had no shot both times. I have shot enough idpa matches to know how fast i can shoot and at what ranges. I have seen cops shoot and i am better than most. Could i have drawn under fire. no i would have ducked like everyone else. I saw yesterday that he fired 170 rds in 9 mins. Which by the way is a great response time by the cops. That is like 18 rds a min avg. I bet faster at times and slower at others I would have had time to get a shot off. My gun could have not made it worse. I was very bad. It might have made it end faster. Patrick

Highland Springs VA
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The hypocrisy and double standards rain from the sky with you handful of intellectuals. Answer me this, since all of you are so intelligent/intellectual and seemed to have the answers for the ills of society and our country. Why are you here? Why are you on a swing website spewing your perfect solutions and not taking actions elsewhere to make a difference? Yeah I know, you all vote and that's doing your part. But if you are so much more intelligent then the rest who are here, wouldn't your talents be better used in the political arena? The area where all your ideas can be brought to fruition? Where you can eliminate the 20,000 gun laws that are useless. Where you can require all citizens to train and carry a weapon of your choice. Where you can make it mandatory for students to carry a weapon. Eliminate all those stupid things like a gun free zone and police officers who never pull their weapons, ever. Shoot those who have the audacity to disagree with you out of a torpedo tube at 500 feet? I don't know, just a thought. Think of all the good you could do with all that power. And you could appoint your boys to enforce your plans. What a perfect word this would be.

Allentown PA
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You tell others that aspects of your comments are inferred/implied when you present your thesis (see above) and yet pick apart others and accuse them of not knowing what they are talking about when they present theirs. And you inferre/imply that the outcome would have been different if someone there was armed, other than Cho. Yet you have no proof of this, all you have is your ideas and beliefs. The only solid proof anyone has is that a gunman armed with two handguns went into a school and massacred 32 people. That it was a precalculated incident and he was prepared for what he was doing. He fired 170 rounds and mailed a package to NBC so they would air it. That is the proof everyone has, beyond that anything here is speculation. Could an armed deterrent made a difference, possibly. Or maybe he would have gone to another area in the building and caused 42 lost lives. You of course will find justification that the deterrent worked because he didn't kill those in the first classroom. Then you will say that in the other room another person would be armed and they would have saved the day. With you guys there is no end, you have an answer for everything.

This one of my favorite things to show the hypocrisy that knows no bounds: "*** People who feel strongly about gun rights I suppose shouldn't send their kids to college (as a whole they probably don't anyway). **** It is stupid, arrogant, hatefilled, leftwing posts like this that make you unworthy of being in this country. So, asswipe, you feel that us gun carrying AMERICANS are stupid and our kids are too stupid to go to college? They should have shot your ass out of a torpedo tube at 500 feet."

Yet when one of your cronies who you share the same philosophy with makes a comment like this, you are trying to high five them and make it out to be the greatest statement ever. Why aren't you condemning them in the same fashion? Like the following examples:

"nobody will ever accuse you of being a man....an adult male...maybe..thats debatable...a man...not a fckin chance in hell...I bet your wife has more balls than you do..." "wtf ever entered your mind for you to think for a moment that you have anything in common with true intellectuals? I can't imagine you have a job where any real intelligence is required...you gotta be a union guy who screws lugnuts on jeeps..." "Anyone who thinks being armed isn't a deterrent is a moron." "That was an embarassing post for somebody of your intellect. Ignorance is unbecoming of you." And this one is really good, especially that last sentence: "Isn't it cool that Simbax and EandR get to be the sanity police. I'd bet most would think you both are insane for being on this site. Neither of you have any right to judge others." Ah pot, kettle, black..

Allentown PA
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"Atown, now you sound like the kids I have posted about, you yell and yell and yell because you think that by yelling a lot someone will begin to believe you. No where did I post that I would have "dropped him in his tracks." I don't think many have posted that. Also, I didn't say YOU started the "what if's". I said I hated them. Then I addressed a specific issue with YOU. It appears you cannot separate issues in a single post so you just yell."

Whatever dude. It's amazing to me that you are capable of deciphering my emotional state and response through a computer screen. THIS WOULD BE YELLING. It is very interesting how you self proclaimed intellectuals present your opinion. I always thought they used reasoning and calm discussion to get their point across. Frank and honest discussions, get real!! Not with you guys, if one does not subscribe or drink your kool-aid, that type of discussion will never happen. No where here have any of you intellectuals been gentleman, calm or respectful.. All you have done is belittled and criticized others for an opinion separate from yours. All of you have retorted to name calling, such as Moron, Jackass, Stupid, Dumbass, Dumb, a sheep, a dolt. And of course you challenge the manhood of a person. As though the definition of being a man calls for a gun hidden under your shirt/jacket. A gang member has a gun, Cho had a gun and fired on innocent people, does that make him a man because he could fire a weapon? You remind me of the bully that tries to make themselves feel and look better by insulting and putting down their rival. Sort of a strong arm tactic so that you will be heard. Frank and honest discussions, not with you guys. If being an intellectual is being represented by you handful of people, I'll be a nonintellectual. Yeah I know, you already KNOW I'm not an intellectual so the point is mute, right? You all have presented scenarios of what ifs as though there is concrete evidence to support your claim. Yet you tell those who oppose your views to prove their claim. And that all what ifs do is enforce their propaganda with a no win scenario. Prove your claim! Here's one example:

the stupidity lies in those that think like you do...it's clear once again..you don't have a fckin clue....not a fckin clue... 38 scenario....you have a gun...are intent on killing as many innocents as you can shoot....and you run into me..or others...who are armed.... wanna rethink your position now? 38

What does this prove, you are absolutely positive you'll win the showdown? In the imortal words of Perfect, Prove it! "What a shame. This guy was easily stoppable." Prove it

Allentown PA
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TOPIC: Virginia Tech - How can 21 Kids be dead in a Gun Free Zone