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TOPIC: The Second Republican Debate
Created by: joeodd2
Original Starting post for this thread:
Your impressions on who won and who lost. What moments stood out for you, and what do you think it means for the party?

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If Powell ran I could see that "I have the dossier right here in my hand!" speech he gave to the UN on how he *knew* Saddam had WMDs being played over and over until he was forced to chug down a bottle of sleeping pills and fifth of whiskey. Powells political career is in ruins, yet another casualty of the Bush administration.

What are we up to now, like 30 people forced out of the picture by Dubya's inane antics? I've lost track:

Powell Tenet Rumsfeld (good riddance) Wolfowitz Alberto Gonzalez (won't be long now) Scooter Libby Tony Blair Gen. George Casey et. al.

Goose Creek SC
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Joeodd, Powell's too smart to run. Shame though. I would have considered him a great asset.

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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The "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" argument. The idea that someone with very little political experience, no military experience, and no foreign policy experience would make a "good president", may have been the case back in the days of Abe Lincoln. But today Politics are so sophisticated and complex, that someone without experience would be overwhelmed and would have to rely heavily on their "Advisers", Karl Rove anyone? If you want another puppet president then vote Obama. I would rather have someone who can stand on his own two feet and who knows the devils on both sides of the Isle and the games that they play. I would rather someone who has meet with leaders in the UN and knows how things work there. Putting Obama in office is like putting a Paris Hilton in Rikers............He seems like a nice guy, but he isn't what we need right now. We need a proven Leader someone with strength and character, and EXPERIENCE. I would love to see more military guys in this thing, has anyone called Powell?

Arlington TX
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..."choosing between a giant douche and turd sandwich "...

I almost peed my pants on that one, but , yeah...it's sorta like that.

Unfortunately, I don't see too many young upstarts with the go-getter, idealistic attutude that you suggest. I see the attitude for power and money in even the young ones right from the start. I don't have much faith in the up n' comers either. Call me jaded, but it's pretty obvious from where I sit in Florida.

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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"Because abstaining from voting is not a choice in my estimation. It proves nothing other than apathy."

Voting doesn't prove anything either really accept that you've been suckered into choosing between a giant douche and turd sandwich (ever see that South Park episode?) ... If you have to choose between the lesser of evils, apathy sounds like a viable alternative to me.

"e_r, are you saying that in ten years Obama will be bought and paid for because he would have been in DC too long by then? If he's the man of character that you think, then he will be even MORE viable in ten years because he will not have been bought."

Nah, I don't think so. When in Rome you do as the Romans. He's likely to go native like the rest of reprobates and start taking bribes and kickbacks. When you're young you're full of piss, vinegar, ideals and convictions. As you get older the "give a shit" expansion tank goes dry, and it becomes all about money.

The biggest problem we have in this country are career poliiticians. Politics shouldn't be a career. It should be a short stint spent by young, pithy, smart and noble go-getters who want to serve their countrymen. Like the military. You don't see them vyying for aged old coots; the recruiters want the young whipper-snappers.

"Maybe what I want to see is idealistic; an ethical, intelligent human being with the guts to admit when they are wrong, demand the truth in all national issues and do what is best for the country as a whole instead of their cronies' bank accounts."

Me too. But I think you're more likely to get that from a young, *inexperienced* go-getter than from anyone who has spent too long in office already.

Goose Creek SC
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WnT2, I imagine you might start by writing to your reps and asking them to support the interstate compact by signing on. Hawaii has already voted to do so. Kalifornea did not (some say Arnold thinks he may have pissed off a few too many Reps and this would have pushed them too far *L*). I'm sure you won't see much publicity about it and it will just die out since most Republicans are against the popular vote and hang on to the Electorate. Republicans tend to fear change.

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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...."Why vote at all if you feel that way?"...

Because abstaining from voting is not a choice in my estimation. It proves nothing other than apathy. You register nothing. No one takes notice. If you want to show disapproval against the ruling parties politicians, then vote Socialist, vote Libertarian, vote for yourself if you so choose or write in Mickey Mouse. Take part by writing your representatives. Voice your opinion through your vote. Not voting simply means you don't care. I care, thus, I vote.

e_r, are you saying that in ten years Obama will be bought and paid for because he would have been in DC too long by then? If he's the man of character that you think, then he will be even MORE viable in ten years because he will not have been bought. I don't disagree that most DC politicians are of that ilk. However, I still don't want anymore training wheel politicians in the White House. Maybe what I want to see is idealistic; an ethical, intelligent human being with the guts to admit when they are wrong, demand the truth in all national issues and do what is best for the country as a whole instead of their cronies' bank accounts.

Dream on...yeah, I know.

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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"Voting for president has become a vote for the LEAST INCOMPETENT, rather than the most politically literate cadidate."

Why vote at all if you feel that way? I really don't see any reason for you to continue to exist under the logical fallacy of a false dilemma. There is a third way, that being to abstain. Don't play the game, so to speak. It only encourages them anyway. If you're not a staunch partisan and you really don't think the candidates are that good then simply don't vote.

"Now, based on your comparison, why would I vote for Obama when I didn't vote for Bush either?"

In my opinion the longer someone is in D.C. the more likely they are to get bought and paid for by big business. "Experience" in politics just means you owe lots of favors to the cronies that kept you around long enough to become "experienced".

Why vote for Obama? Maybe lack of experience is in this case a good thing. He owes fewer favors and isn't in anyones hip pocket. Maybe those words he speaks that "we all want to hear" he really believes.

And yes, he's black. To me that means he's got an even tougher row to hoe. It's even more important for him to do a good job because he's got to prove that a black man can do it better than whitey.

I like the odds that he'll be a good leader.

Goose Creek SC
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LOL....WnT2, I never vote strict party lines either. I'm always crossing boundaries ;-)

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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The USA was not intended to be a democracy as we think it. It was designed as a Republic. However, I completely agree with the notion that the Electoral College is outdated. The reasoning behind the Electoral College was due to the widely sprawled out constituancey across the states, the slow moving and outright lack of communication between states and their constituancy,and the lack of education among the constituancy at the time. It was tied to the slave system of the south in which slave owning states could count heads (of slaves) as constituants, but had no actual vote power themselves. Effectually, the Electoral profitted slave owners of the south (wealthy, educated) in their politcal efforts of vieing for power pre Civil War.

Two hundred plus years of technology, higher education and ease of communication has changed all that. Let the popular vote stand as the vehicle for choosing the president.

One state, Maryland, is attempting to avert the Electoral College by initiating a compact between states whereby the electoral votes of those states turn over all electoral votes to the popluar winner. (April 12, 2007)

..."The bill makes Maryland the first state to sign an interstate compact that obligates each signatory to cast all its electoral votes for the presidential candidate who wins the national popular vote. The compact won't go into effect unless it's signed by enough states to comprise a majority of the electoral college vote."...

I'm with Maryland on this. I'm hoping more states sign the compact agreement so it can be carried over and implimented.

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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TOPIC: The Second Republican Debate