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TOPIC: The_END_of_the_Socialism_and_Communism_Experiment_in_America!
Created by: DestinFlCp The original post for this thread was deleted.
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Fun,

While we may not agree, I appreciate your thoughtful and knowledgeable responses.

George

San Antonio TX
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George, long life and available or good medical care are related, but that is not the total picture. There are many factors outside of medical care that influence longevity. Genetics plays a huge role in it. Lifestyle also has much to do with it. We have the cheapest calories in the world as far as hours of work to buy 2000 calories. Obesity in America is an epidemic, and yes we are the worlds fattest and it shows in medical care cost and life expectancy. Again, I will refer you to our high infant mortality rate which is about double that of much of europe. That is equal to making a zero on the first test, and trying to bring the grades up. Very little of the infant mortality rate in the USA is the fault of the medical system or the care. We cannot force women to take their prenatal vitamins, not due illegal drugs, or smoke during pregnancy. Maybe if the courts would hold some of them criminally liable for the death of their infant due to Momma being a meth- head it might get someones attention, but otherwise we cannot change behavior. So you can leave the race card out, most meth users are white. ( Meth, the white trash answer to prove they can be just as stupid as the inner city crack head)Again, we classify anything with a heart beat as a live birth, whether it has any chance for viability or not, unless it is a late term therapeutic abortion, where for legal reasons, it cannot be considered a live birth. I am in the medical care business as are 90 % of specialists, not the health care business. There is a big difference. Heath care is as much the responsibility of the patient as the medical community. I cannot make you healthy, I treat your medical conditions while you are under my care in the hospital. Diet, exercise, substance abuse, living conditions and compliance with the medical care you are given is your responsibility, not mine. I would say that at least 25 % of the patients I see are non-compliant, they will die early and cost the system a lot of money in the meantime. When I was younger and my practice was pretty much limited to anesthesia for major vascular surgery, over 75 % of my patients were there due to a lifestyle choice: Smoking. Aortic, carotid, and femoral artery surgery is expensive. In the USA we do all we can to save the limbs of the patient, even if it is just temporary. In Europe, one try for a fem pop bypass then chop chop. TBR loves to paint everything as racist whenever I mention race as a cause for things. Africans cannot handle a high salt diet, it is genetic.If they are in an area where they will lose lots of salt when sweating it is not as big of a problem as in the good old A/C USA. It is genetic if I say it, Jesse Jackson says it, or David Duke says it. Native Americans cannot handle a high carbohydrate diet, especially sugars and highly refined flour. That is why the number one surgical procedure on adults in the Indian health service is AMPUTATION. Hopi Indians have a low BMR, with some studies showing that an adult Hopi woman can live on 590 calories per day.That would kill 90% of white adults in the world. The white man is killing more Indians with the fast foods and sweets than he ever did with the rifle. Again, if that is racist, then I am self hating, since I am a mix of Scottish, Irish and Cherokee. You can do a study in Nigeria and find that there are few deaths from melanoma or perforated diverticuli . So that must mean that Nigerian doctors must be the world's best at treating those conditions. No, it just means that those are diseases that are virtually unheard of there due to genetics and diet.

Mentone AL
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Jo,

Didn't you get it yet?

It's the minorities.

San Diego CA
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Fun,

First I think you attributed something to me that I did not say (re. preventative care).

Second, if our healthcare system is better than the European system – why do they live longer?

Are they genetically superior to us? Do they have a lower percentage of dumbasses than we do. Of course not.

The stats you cite clearly show that we do some things better than the Europeans. But overall, they do better than us. That’s why they live longer.

George

San Antonio TX
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This is lifted from a European symposium on Cancer. Survival was significantly higher in the United States for all solid tumors, except testicular, stomach, and soft-tissue cancer, the authors report. The greatest differences were seen in the major cancer sites: colon and rectum (56.2% in Europe vs 65.5% in the United States), breast (79.0% vs 90.1%), and prostate cancer (77.5% vs 99.3%), and this "probably represents differences in the timeliness of diagnosis," they comment. That in turn stems from the more intensive screening for cancer carried out in the United States, where a reported 70% of women aged 50 to 70 years have undergone a mammogram in the past 2 years, one-third of people have had sigmoidoscopy or colonoscopy in the past 5 years, and more than 80% of men aged 65 years or more have had a prostate-specific antigen (PSA) test. In fact, it is this PSA testing that probably accounts for the very high survival from prostate cancer seen in the United States, the authors comment. There is no comparison of the quality of health care in Europe to the USA. No disease has a higher survival rate. Cardiovascular surgery in Europe, especially neonatal lags well behind the USA. TBR, I knew you would bring up the fact that I said as a percent of income, my malpractice insurance has dropped. My malpractice premium is the cheapest portion of the cost of care that has to do with litigation. The cost of most often unnecessary pre-operative clearance by cardiac and pulmonary specialist may be the most expensive. A patient presents with any history that a lawyer might be able to construe as significant will get you a trip to the cardiologist. Cardiologist gets an EKG that is not perfect so they go to stress testing. If the stress test is abnormal, then a trip to the cath lab. Patient ends up just fine, but I have just sent the cost of their colon resection up by several thousand dollars. Same for the patient who comes to the ER with a headache. 99% chance it is nothing, but got to get a CT scan to cover your ass. Person has abdominal pain and all symptoms for acute appendicitis. Most countries, you go straight to the OR and that 10% that it was PID, ovarian cyst or whatever the pathology, just got an operation that they did not need. Here they go to CT scan 1st. That CT just added $1,000.00 to the bill. Jo mentioned the fact that we do not do preventive care and do not fix until it is major problem. I live in this world, you do not. Telling a medical person that we do not intervene soon enough because you have read some article is like me telling a Marine how to stay alive in combat because I have played a Video Game. We see patient everyday who KNOW THEY HAVE THE DISEASE and will not do a damn thing about it. I see diabetics who refuse to lose weight, hypertensive who refuse to take their medicine, and pregnant women who are anemic because they refuse to take their FREE prenatal vitamins. We have a saying in health care that you treat ignorance with education and you treat stupidity with embalming fluid.

Mentone AL
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Again, where to start.

You are attributing the entire difference in medical costs to 12% of the population? Really now...

Let's talk about the increasing instance of medical tourism, where you can get the same procedure done at 1/4 the cost. The relative price of almost all medical procedures is significantly less in other countries.

Or the fact that I can drive 30 miles down the freeway and get the same drugs for one third to one quarter the price.

Or maybe let's talk about the fact that diabetes, hypertension, and other chronic diseases would be much less costly if they were caught early, and the US is the only industrialized country that does not provide some form of universal care.

Your 25% figure on tort reform is total baloney. You have stated that your malpractice premiums are significantly cheaper than they were in the past. The most reputable studies show that tort reform would reduce health cost by maybe 2%.

Lastly, maybe we should talk about the fact that the private and employer based health insurance system in this country has an overhead of about 30%, does not go to patient care. When you add all of this gouging, you are getting into some real money...

San Diego CA
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Fun,

I agree that many Americans engage in activities that increase the cost of healthcare for all of us. However, every country has its share of knuckleheads that raise the cost of healthcare for everyone. For example, smoking is more prevalent in Europe than it is here.

So, why do we pay twice as much as the Europeans for healthcare? I think the answer is clear – the European healthcare system is better than ours. Why? Because 1) it costs less, and 2) it produces better results.

George

San Antonio TX
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TBR, please address the racism to the groups that gathered the statistics. The results on crime and mortality rates came from various US Government sites. Guess that racist Eric Holder is manipulating the crime stats from the department of justice.

Mentone AL
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Why do we pay more for health care ? It is a combination of demand and access. There is virtually no waiting for any service in the USA. There are more cardiac surgical rooms in the state of Alabama than there is in all of England. There are more CT scanners, MRI, Med-flight choppers, ICU beds, and ultra specialized physicians and technicians per capita in the USA than any where in the world. This is very expensive. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on hopeless cases every hour in this country. But, we have the highest survival rates for most cancers in the world. Our trauma care is second to none. Our burn units set the standards for the world. The demands placed upon the system by the obesity and diabetic problems here are unlike anywhere in the world. We have a tort system that drives the cost of health care up by at least 25%. The premature birth rate in the USA is very high and expensive. Smoking and other forms of substance abuse by pregnant women and our over 30% C section rate drive up costs. We are also the cosmetic capital of the world, and that price is also figured into our per capita spending. The consumer in health care get what they pay for. We in the USA have a Rolls Royce system, but many people want to pay for a Chevy.

Mentone AL
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We all count for sure, but actions and genetics of certain groups skew the stats dramatically, and when comparing statistics, you must try to compare apples to apples.We have ethnic groups in this country with totally different risk factors for diseases that are not seen in the Scandinavian countries. Diabetes is an epidemic in the Native American and many of the non -Cuban Hispanic populations. Not a big Navaho population in the UK. Hypertension and its associated complications is seen in the majority of Blacks in the USA, especially in the South. If see a group of blacks in Scandinavia they are either tourist or the Olympics or World Cup is going on. In the eyes of the Deity and the law we may all be the same. But biologically we are all quite different. Much of the differences are evolutionary such as Diabetes in many Native Americans, obesity in the Hopi, and hypertension in blacks. If these ethnic groups refuse to accept these problems and adjust their lifestyles and medication accordingly, they will continue to suffer the consequences. Sven cannot spend 10 hours a week in a tanning bed and get away with it for very long. It is genetics.

Mentone AL
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TOPIC: The END of the Socialism and Communism Experiment in America
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