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Tales of self defense : Swingers Discussion 21552610141
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TOPIC: Tales of self defense
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Fjp if the suspect has fled and ended the immediate threat, that threat is over and done. If you chase this suspect and end up using your firearm on him it is you who have initiated this new incident and it will be you who is put on trial for shooting someone who posed no threat to you. Period. Your words sound just fine but they do not agree with the words that are taught in every CCW class I know of. Just because you have a CCW and carry it does not give your the same rights that LEO's have. You do not have a right to instigate anything that ends in a death and if death does happen you will be held responsible. Even in the states that allow you to defend yourself down town when you feel threatened you can not initiate the fight then shoot someone who defends themselves from you. You will go to prison.

Red Bluff CA
 
 
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You're almost always more likely to get shot if you pull a gun.

Flat Rock NC
 
 
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"They do not have the right to pursue a suspect who is fleeing and there is no longer an immediate threat."

The above is completely false.

Sanford NC
 
 
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No civilians are not LEO's in some cases they have more leeway than LEOs. Common law is pretty clear, I am not saying it is wise, but it is legal. In the case of a forcible felony; rape, armed robbery, murder, burglary, those crimes where force is a element of the crime it is permissible to use deadly force even if they are fleeing. But they have to witness the crime to use deadly force. Same for police, they cannot shoot a fleeing subject on a hunch.

In this case the LAC was well within the law to apprehend a criminal who had just committed a felony. He was not justified to use deadly force BUT he could use that force necessary to affect the arrest, including assault. Being in possession of a firearm does not negate common law. Nor change self defense while effecting an arrest.

As far as running/chasing while holding a handgun, there is nothing IMO to imply that he did. He may have drawn as he apprehended the robber. I find it clumsy to run with any firearm, including a long gun, but especially a handgun. In all my instances of chasing suspects I holstered or kept holstered my handgun. It is one of the reasons batters don't run with a bat after a hit, it is cumbersome, and somebody could get hurt including the batter.

I respect Good but I tend on focusing on what is reported not on what was not. Keep in mind that running with a handgun in civilian clothes after a reported armed robbery might get a person shot. And that Florida carry statutes require that the firearm stay concealed unless needed. And Fl residents have been arrested for display. Fl is not a open carry state.

Sanford NC
 
 
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Good is pretty much spot on in this. The exception would be if the suspect was running toward someone and you knew he intended to either kill them or cause gross and great bodily harm. And that would be damned hard to. "know". Civilians who carry are not LEO's. They have the right to protect themselves and even protect those around them from death or the threat of death. They do not have the right to pursue a suspect who is fleeing and there is no longer an immediate threat.

Red Bluff CA
 
 
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I would not have chased him either, but he was within the law to chase him. And he was within the law to hit him, and have his gun drawn. As long as he did not shoot him to affect the arrest. Now he could have shot him in self defense though.

I carry a gun to protect myself and my family, that is it. The bank should have had a armed guard, or armed employee. I commend the man, but it is not my duty to apprehend criminals as a LAC.

But the fact remains that LACs do catch criminals, they do prevent crime, they save lives. Far above the lives taken by firearms, so banning guns will increase not only crimes but homicides. Just take a look at Chicago.

Sanford NC
 
 
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I believe the article stated he hit the suspect with the gun, which implieds he had his firearm drawn while chasing a suspect armed with a knife.

Don't get me wrong, I'm OK that he caught the suspect, BUT had it been me with a firearm, I would have never chased him. Goes against everything I was ever taught about the matter.

You never know, he turns a corner and as you follow, there's one of his buddies around the corner with a gun, or he pulls a gun you didn't see before- and someone gets hurt/killed.

Brooklyn Park MN
 
 
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Good the article does not say he used his firearm. But in common law any force less then deadly force can be used to affect a arrest for a felony. That includes civilians. Deadly force can be used to stop a forcible felony, and may be used in some cases against a fleeing forcible felon.

He would not have been justified in using deadly force, because one he did not witness the felony. But he could use physical force within reason including assault, drawing on the suspect. This is pretty much common in most states, unless they have specific statutes forbidding it.

A misdemeanor citizens arrest in most states can only be done if the citizen actually witnesses the crime. That is not necessary for felonies, but if the citizen is wrong he does not have the immunity from prosecution that police do.

Him being armed makes no difference in chasing a felon.

Sanford NC
 
 
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I'm unsure if it's legal in FL to pursue someone while you have a loaded firearm, but that goes against everything I was ever taught about a civilian carrying a firearm.

Using a firearm according to the law here, and the states I carry in, is limited to being used to prevent death or serious bodily injury from an assailant. In other words, as a means of defense.

Chasing someone who is not presenting an immediate danger to another does not seem to me to be a defensive act. Leave the police work to the police.

Just my opinion, based on my training.

Brooklyn Park MN
 
 
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"Summery execution! "

Is that where you save all the executions for warm weather, so it's a more festive atmosphere?

Flat Rock NC
 
 
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TOPIC: Tales of self defense