Stop Validating Your Ignorance: Swingers Discussion 216284

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TOPIC: Stop Validating Your Ignorance:

Created by: Z_Z_Krewe Original Starting post for this thread:
A Paradigm for Intelligent Discussion Home Videos Lawrence Krauss: Stop Validating Ignorance TRANSCRIPT Lawrence Krauss: It amazes me that people have pre-existing notions that defy the evidence of reality. But that they hold onto them so dearly. And one of them is the notion of creationism, or. in fact, Senator Marco Rubio, who’s presumably a reasonably intelligent man and maybe even educated, was asked what’s the age of the Earth, and ultimately, either because he actually believed it or he was trying to appeal to some constituency, had to argue that it’s a big mystery, that somehow we should teach kids both ideas, that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that it’s 4.55 billion years old, which is what it is. If you think about that, somehow saying that, well, anything goes, we shouldn't offend religious beliefs by requiring kids to know - to understand reality; that’s child abuse. And if you think about it, teaching kids - or allowing the notion that the earth is 6,000 years old to be promulgated in schools is like teaching kids that the distance across the United States is 17 feet. That’s how big an error it is. Now you might say, look, a lot of people believe that, so don’t we owe it to them to allow their views to be present in school? Well, as I’ve often said, the purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it. Fifty percent of the people in the United States, when we probe them each year with the National Science Foundation, think that the sun goes around the Earth, not that the Earth goes around the sun. When we asked the question - we provide the question: The Earth goes around the sun and takes a year to do it; true or false? Almost every year, 50 percent of the people get that wrong. Now, does that mean in schools we should allow the anti-Galilean and Copernican idea that the sun goes around the Earth to be taught? Absolutely not. If, in fact, the very fact that people don’t know that, and the very fact that enough people are willing to somehow believe that Earth is 6,000 years old, means we have to do a better job of teaching physics and biology, not a worse job. The last thing we want to do is water down the teaching of biology because some people don’t recognize that evolution happened. Evolution is the basis of modern biology and, in fact, if a lot of people don’t believe it, it only means we have to do a better job teaching it. So once again, I repeat, the purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it. And to overcome a situation where a United States Senator can speak such manifest nonsense with impunity is vitally important to the healthy future of our society. Technology and biotechnology will be the basis of our economic future. And if we allow nonsense to be promulgated in the schools, we do a disservice to our students, a disservice to our children, and we’re guaranteeing that they will fall behind in a competitive world that depends upon a skilled workforce able to understand and manipulate technology and science.

Created by: Z_Z_Krewe
Original Starting post for this thread:

A Paradigm for Intelligent Discussion
Home Videos Lawrence Krauss: Stop Validating Ignorance

TRANSCRIPT

Lawrence Krauss: It amazes me that people have pre-existing notions that defy the evidence of reality. But that they hold onto them so dearly. And one of them is the notion of creationism, or. in fact, Senator Marco Rubio, who’s presumably a reasonably intelligent man and maybe even educated, was asked what’s the age of the Earth, and ultimately, either because he actually believed it or he was trying to appeal to some constituency, had to argue that it’s a big mystery, that somehow we should teach kids both ideas, that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that it’s 4.55 billion years old, which is what it is.

If you think about that, somehow saying that, well, anything goes, we shouldn't offend religious beliefs by requiring kids to know - to understand reality; that’s child abuse. And if you think about it, teaching kids - or allowing the notion that the earth is 6,000 years old to be promulgated in schools is like teaching kids that the distance across the United States is 17 feet. That’s how big an error it is.

Now you might say, look, a lot of people believe that, so don’t we owe it to them to allow their views to be present in school? Well, as I’ve often said, the purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it. Fifty percent of the people in the United States, when we probe them each year with the National Science Foundation, think that the sun goes around the Earth, not that the Earth goes around the sun. When we asked the question - we provide the question: The Earth goes around the sun and takes a year to do it; true or false? Almost every year, 50 percent of the people get that wrong.

Now, does that mean in schools we should allow the anti-Galilean and Copernican idea that the sun goes around the Earth to be taught? Absolutely not. If, in fact, the very fact that people don’t know that, and the very fact that enough people are willing to somehow believe that Earth is 6,000 years old, means we have to do a better job of teaching physics and biology, not a worse job.

The last thing we want to do is water down the teaching of biology because some people don’t recognize that evolution happened. Evolution is the basis of modern biology and, in fact, if a lot of people don’t believe it, it only means we have to do a better job teaching it. So once again, I repeat, the purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it. And to overcome a situation where a United States Senator can speak such manifest nonsense with impunity is vitally important to the healthy future of our society.  

Technology and biotechnology will be the basis of our economic future. And if we allow nonsense to be promulgated in the schools, we do a disservice to our students, a disservice to our children, and we’re guaranteeing that they will fall behind in a competitive world that depends upon a skilled workforce able to understand and manipulate technology and science.

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User Details are only visible to members.	It is sad America leads the world in 3 things Persons incarcerated per capita Defense spending as a percentage of GDP per capita And people who believe the earth is 6000 years old, there were two T-Rexs on the Ark, and angels are real. And we wonder why China is eating our lunch?
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2567 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Looking at the first link, it seems the question about the sun and earth was really 2 questions. "How long does it take for the Earth to go around the Sun? (One year)" Less than 50% of Americans got this right for many years. After 2001, the number crept over 50. The other question -- does the Earth go around the Sun -- has been 71-76% right all along.
Flat Rock NC			Username hidden (2804 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"Fifty percent of the people in the United States, when we probe them each year with the National Science Foundation, think that the sun goes around the Earth, not that the Earth goes around the sun. " This is a lie. That is my only point. Why base an argument on a lie when several embarrassing truths are available?
Chesapeake VA			Username hidden (11738 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	VB, you'll notice that was a transcript, and it reads like talking (repetitions, poor sentence structure), not like a prepared text. Yes, 50% wrong is twice as bad as 25% wrong. But that snippet seems like a very small part of the message: We should not pander to superstition and ignorance, least of all in our schools. I assume if you write that guy and point out his error, he's not going to come back with an argument that you should take it on faith, or that "his" number is as good as any other. Meanwhile I looked into the first link you posted. Scrolling past Korea, I noticed both Russia and China were less than 50% right on all 8 or 9 questions. And these were true-false questions! Were they trick questions in Russian and Chinese? Maybe in an authoritarian society, there's no such thing as answering "false" to a question. That may be like saying "No" to an order?
Flat Rock NC			Username hidden (2804 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	The basis of the OP topic was that only ~50% of Americans know the Earth revolves around the sun, quoting a National Science Foundation study. This is an outright fabrication - the real # is more like 70-76% and actually exceeds the EU average and I backed it up with the links directly from the NSF. Why make things up? Why not go for one of the REALLY embarrassing statistics that are TRUE?
Chesapeake VA			Username hidden (11738 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Gallup poll from 2010 says 40% of Americans believe God created humans in their present form, less than 10,000 years ago. Among Dems and Indies, it's 34%. Among Repubs it's 52%
Flat Rock NC			Username hidden (2804 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	While I think Marco Rubio chickened out on his answer, I don't usually bother continuing to read columns written by people willing to brazenly invent statistics. The US is actually ahead of the EU average, while behind South Korea. National Science Foundation poll - Earth around the Sun, or Sun around the Earth? Earth around the sun (the correct answer): US (+/- 2%) 1988 72% 2001 75% 2004 71% 2006 76% European Union (+/- 1%) 2001 67% 2005 66% China (+/- 1%) 2001 59% South Korea (+/- 3%) 2004 86% There are a lot of embarrassing OTHER statistics - like, that 70% of Americans believe that all radioactivity is caused by humans. Why did this guy feel the need to argue about one he simply pulled out of his ass? (US only results, but with more years) sciencedude.blog.ocregister. com/files/2008/06/garyscixls.pdf (International Results) w ww.nsf. gov/statistics/seind06/append/c7/at07-10.pdf Of course, here comes the parade of buffoons who think what I'm doing is defending Rubio because he's a Republican. ZZZZZzzz... no. This has nothing to do with Marco Rubio (who, as I said, chickened out in his answer) and everything to do with hit-piece journalism. More bullshit from bullshitters.
Chesapeake VA			Username hidden (11738 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Once the dumb and ignorant people of America got organized, and these include the majority of people who vote in Republican primaries, they had the ability to speak with a single voice. Once they had political clout, they demanded that all discussions be dumbed down to their level. Especially that taxes aren't necessary to civilization, and that government should be shut down. Economics may be more of an art than a science, but it is possible to make headway just by noticing what works and what doesn't. But since many or most Americans are offended by people who are more knowledgeable, they prefer a level intellectual playing field. When you play Family Feud, you don't win by having "right" answers; you win by guessing what the average FF-watcher thinks of.
Flat Rock NC			Username hidden (2804 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	A Paradigm for Intelligent Discussion Home Videos Lawrence Krauss: Stop Validating Ignorance TRANSCRIPT Lawrence Krauss: It amazes me that people have pre-existing notions that defy the evidence of reality. But that they hold onto them so dearly. And one of them is the notion of creationism, or. in fact, Senator Marco Rubio, who’s presumably a reasonably intelligent man and maybe even educated, was asked what’s the age of the Earth, and ultimately, either because he actually believed it or he was trying to appeal to some constituency, had to argue that it’s a big mystery, that somehow we should teach kids both ideas, that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that it’s 4.55 billion years old, which is what it is. If you think about that, somehow saying that, well, anything goes, we shouldn't offend religious beliefs by requiring kids to know - to understand reality; that’s child abuse. And if you think about it, teaching kids - or allowing the notion that the earth is 6,000 years old to be promulgated in schools is like teaching kids that the distance across the United States is 17 feet. That’s how big an error it is. Now you might say, look, a lot of people believe that, so don’t we owe it to them to allow their views to be present in school? Well, as I’ve often said, the purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it. Fifty percent of the people in the United States, when we probe them each year with the National Science Foundation, think that the sun goes around the Earth, not that the Earth goes around the sun. When we asked the question - we provide the question: The Earth goes around the sun and takes a year to do it; true or false? Almost every year, 50 percent of the people get that wrong. Now, does that mean in schools we should allow the anti-Galilean and Copernican idea that the sun goes around the Earth to be taught? Absolutely not. If, in fact, the very fact that people don’t know that, and the very fact that enough people are willing to somehow believe that Earth is 6,000 years old, means we have to do a better job of teaching physics and biology, not a worse job. The last thing we want to do is water down the teaching of biology because some people don’t recognize that evolution happened. Evolution is the basis of modern biology and, in fact, if a lot of people don’t believe it, it only means we have to do a better job teaching it. So once again, I repeat, the purpose of education is not to validate ignorance, but to overcome it. And to overcome a situation where a United States Senator can speak such manifest nonsense with impunity is vitally important to the healthy future of our society. Technology and biotechnology will be the basis of our economic future. And if we allow nonsense to be promulgated in the schools, we do a disservice to our students, a disservice to our children, and we’re guaranteeing that they will fall behind in a competitive world that depends upon a skilled workforce able to understand and manipulate technology and science.
Treasure Is FL			Username hidden (6109 post)

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