115
Still looking for the answers to many of Sapp's questions : Swingers Discussion 978121021
Busy Swingers Forum - everything you always wanted to know about swingers.
SwingLifeStyle Swingers Personal Ads. | SwingLifeStyle Swingers Clubs

Busy Swingers Forum

Everything you always wanted to know about swingers.

Create A Free Account

HELP
FORUMSGeneral DiscussionsPoliticsStill looking for the answers to many of Sapp's questions
TOPIC: Still looking for the answers to many of Sapp's questions
GoTo Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Start   21 to 30 of 89   End
User Details are only visible to members.
4. CULTURAL DIFFERENCES- -Southerners and Northerners were of different Genetic Lineages. Southerners were primarily of Western English (original Britons),Scottish, and Irish linage (Celtic) whereas Northerners tended to be of Anglo-Saxon and Danish (Viking) extraction. The two cultures had been at war and at odds for over 1000 years before they arrived in America. Our ancient ancestors in Western England under King Arthur humbled the Saxon princes at the battle of Baden Hill ( circa 497 AD --516 AD ). The cultural differences that contributed to the War Between the States (1861-1865 ) had existed for 1500 years or more.

5. CONTROL OF WESTERN TERRITORIES- -The North wanted to control Western States and Territories such as Kansas and Nebraska. New England formed Immigrant Aid Societies and sent settlers to these areas that were politically attached to the North. They passed laws against slavery that Southerners considered punitive. These political actions told Southerners they were not welcome in the new states and territories. It was all about control--slavery was a scapegoat.

6. NORTHERN INDUSTRIALISTS WANTED THE SOUTH'S RESOURCES. The Northern Industrialists wanted a war to use as an excuse to get the South's resources for pennies on the dollar. They began a campaign about 1830 that would influence the common people of the North and create enmity that would allow them to go to war against the South. These Northern Industrialists brought up a morality claim against the South alleging the evils of slavery. The Northern Hypocrites conveniently neglected to publicize the fact that 5 New England States ( Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and New York ) were primarily responsible for the importation of most of the slaves from Africa to America. These states had both private and state owned fleets of ships.

7. SLANDER OF THE SOUTH BY NORTHERN NEWSPAPERS. This political cause ties in to the above listed efforts by New England Industrialists. Beginning about 1830 the Northern Newspapers began to slander the South. The Industrialists used this tool to indoctrinate the common people of the North. They used slavery as a scapegoat and brought the morality claim up to a feverish pitch. Southerners became tired of reading in the Northern Newspapers about what bad and evil people they were just because their neighbor down the road had a few slaves. This propaganda campaign created hostility between the ordinary citizens of the two regions and created the animosity necessary for war. The Northern Industrialists worked poor whites in the factories of the North under terrible conditions for 18 hours a day ( including children ). When the workers became old and infirm they were fired. It is a historical fact that during this era there were thousands of old people living homeless on the streets in the cities of the North. In the South a slave was cared for from birth to death. Also the diet and living conditions of Southern slaves was superior to that of most white Northern factory workers. Southerners deeply resented this New England hypocrisy and slander.

Spencer TN
Username hidden
(6440 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
1. TARIFF--Prior to the war about 75% of the money to operate the Federal Government was derived from the Southern States via an unfair sectional tariff on imported goods and 50% of the total 75% was from just 4 Southern states--Virginia- North Carolina--South Carolina and Georgia. Only 10%--20% of this tax money was being returned to the South. The Southern states were being treated as an agricultural colony of the North and bled dry. John Randolph of Virginia's remarks in opposition to the tariff of 1820 demonstrates that fact. The North claimed that they fought the war to preserve the Union but the New England Industrialists who were in control of the North were actually supporting preservation of the Union to maintain and increase revenue from the tariff. The industrialists wanted the South to pay for the industrialization of America at no expense to themselves. Revenue bills introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives prior to the War Between the States were biased, unfair and inflammatory to the South. Abraham Lincoln had promised the Northern industrialists that he would increase the tariff rate if he was elected president of the United States. Lincoln increased the rate to a level that exceeded even the "Tariff of Abominations" 40% rate that had so infuriated the South during the 1828-1832 era ( between 50 and 51% on iron goods). The election of a president that was Anti-Southern on all issues and politically associated with the New England industrialists, fanatics, and zealots brought about the Southern secession movement.

2. CENTRALIZATION VERSUS STATES RIGHTS---The United States of America was founded as a Constitutional Federal Republic in 1789 composed of a Limited Federal Government and Sovereign States. The North wanted to and did alter the form of Government this nation was founded upon. The Confederate States of America fought to preserve Constitutional Limited Federal Government as established by America’s founding fathers who were primarily Southern Gentlemen from Virginia. Thus Confederate soldiers were fighting for rights that had been paid for in blood by their forefathers upon the battlefields of the American Revolution. Abraham Lincoln had a blatant disregard for The Constitution of the United States of America. His War of aggression Against the South changed America from a Constitutional Federal Republic to a Democracy ( with Socialist leanings ) and broke the original Constitution. The infamous Socialist Karl Marx sent Lincoln a letter of congratulations after his reelection in 1864. A considerable number of European Socialists came to America and fought for the Union (North).

3. CHRISTIANITY VERSUS SECULAR HUMANISM--The South believed in basic Christianity as presented in the Holy Bible.The North had many Secular Humanists ( atheists, transcendentalists and non-Christians ). Southerners were afraid of what kind of country America might become if the North had its way. Secular Humanism is the belief that there is no God and that man,science and government can solve all problems. This philosophy advocates human rather than religious values. Reference : Frank Conner’s book "The South Under Siege 1830-2000."

pt 2

Spencer TN
Username hidden
(6440 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
By James W King

Historians have long debated the causes of the war and the Southern perspective differs greatly from the Northern perspective. Based upon the study of original documents of theWar Between The States (Civil War) era and facts and information published by Confederate Veterans, Confederate Chaplains, Southern writers and Southern Historians before, during, and after the war, I present the facts, opinions, and conclusions stated in the following article.

Technically the 10 causes listed are reasons for Southern secession. The only cause of the war was that the South was invaded and responded to Northern aggression.

I respectfully disagree with those who claim that the War Between the States was fought over slavery or that the abolition of slavery in the Revolutionary Era or early Federal period would have prevented war. It is my opinion that war was inevitable between the North and South due to complex political and cultural differences. The famous Englishman Winston Churchill stated that the war between the North and South was one of the most unpreventable wars in history. The Cause that the Confederate States of America fought for (1861-1865) was Southern Independence from the United States of America. Many parallels exist between the War for American Independence ( 1775-1783 ) and the War for Southern Independence.

There were 10 political causes of the war (causes of Southern Secession) ---one of which was slavery-- which was a scapegoat for all the differences that existed between the North and South. The Northern industrialists had wanted a war since about 1830 to get the South's resources ( land-cotton- coal-timber- minerals ) for pennies on the dollar. All wars are economic and are always between centralists and decentralists. The North would have found an excuse to invade the South even if slavery had never existed.

A war almost occurred during 1828-1832 over the tariff when South Carolina passed nullification laws. The U.S. congress had increased the tariff rate on imported products to 40% ( known as the tariff of abominations in Southern States ). This crisis had nothing to do with slavery. If slavery had never existed --period--or had been eliminated at the time the Declaration of Independence was written in 1776 or anytime prior to 1860 it is my opinion that there would still have been a war sooner or later.

On a human level there were 4 causes of the war--New England Greed--New England Fanatics--New England Zealots--and New England Hypocrites. During "So Called Reconstruction" ( 1865-1877 ) the New England Industrialists got what they had really wanted for 40 years--THE SOUTH'S RESOURCES FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR. It was a political coalition between the New England economic interests and the New England fanatics and zealots that caused Southern secession to be necessary for economic survival and safety of the population. pt 1

Spencer TN
Username hidden
(6440 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
Sweetbutt:

"Bodybuilder is correct. Selective breeding to make stronger stock."

So is "selective breeding" the euphemism you prefer for the rape of slaves?

Los Angeles CA
Username hidden
(4376 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
JNM & Simbaax. Regarding semantics:

Lincoln used the word "peculiar" because it was part of a euphemize that the South and others used to describe the institution of slavery.

In antebellum America, slavery was referred to as "the peculiar institution." It was peculiar because it was a strange in a country dedicated to freedom and equality, and the Union had to allow for this pecuiliarity.

Defenders of slavery also referred to slavery as the "patriarchial institution," as they compared slaves to children under the guardianship of the father. They said parents do not give freedom to children (or women) and similarly slaves should not be free as they are like women and children.

Not surprisingly, the anti-slavery movement in the South gave rise to a woman right's movement, with women in the abolition movement going on to argue for the liberation of women as well as slavery from the tyranny of male patriarchy, or rule by Founding Fathers who denied equality and the vote to women.

Just as the women's rights movement of the 1960s emerged out of the Civil Rights struggle, so too did women's rights movement of antebellum america emerge from the anti-slavery struggle.

Los Angeles CA
Username hidden
(4376 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
Simbaax has it right:

The South split from the Union to defend and protect the political economy of slavery, as slavery was interfused with their agriculture based economy.

Northern opposition to slavery fused together politics, economics and morality, or religion.

In the late 1850s, Bloody Kansas became bloody because pro and anti slavery forces were fighting over whether Kansas would enter the Union as a slave state or free state. That fight--with killing--prefigured the Civil War. John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry also scared the South, as they saw the North, in their fantacism against slavery, ready to stir up more slave revolts.

Here, Sweetbutt and PerfectMatch: Deal with interpreting Jefferson Davis' own words in his 1861 Message to the Confederate Congress:

"As soon, however, as the Northern States that prohibited African slavery within their limits had reached a number sufficient to give their representation a controlling voice in the Congress, a persistent and organized system of hostile measures against the rights of the owners of slaves in the Southern States was inaugurated and gradually extended. A continuous series of measures was devised and prosecuted for the purpose of rendering insecure the tenure of property in slaves. Fanatical organizations, supplied with money by voluntary subscriptions, were assiduously engaged in exciting amongst the slaves a spirit of discontent and revolt; means were furnished for their escape from their owners, and agents secretly employed to entice them to abscond; the constitutional provision for their rendition to their owners was first evaded, then openly denounced as a violation of conscientious obligation and religious duty; men were taught that it was a merit to elude, disobey, and violently oppose the execution of the laws enacted to secure the performance of the promise contained in the constitutional compact...."

Do you see any desire on Davis' part to justify secession as a way to protect the political economy of slavery?

Los Angeles CA
Username hidden
(4376 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
Border States State Free Population Slave Population Delaware 110,418 1,798 Dist. Columbia 71,895 3,185 Kentucky 930,201 225,483 Maryland 599,860 87,189 Missouri 1,067,081 114,931

Upper South State Free Population Slave Population Arkansas 324,335 111,115 North Carolina 661,563 331,099 Tennessee 834,082 275,719 Virginia 1,105,453 490,865

Lower South State Free Population Slave Population Alabama 519,121 435,080 Florida 78,679 61,745 Georgia 505,088 462,198 Louisiana 376,276 331,726 Mississippi 354,674 436,631 South Carolina 301,302 402,406 Texas 421,649 182,566

Total 1860 Population Total Free Population 27,489,561 Total Slave Population 3,953,760 Grand Total 31,443,321

Total - 1860 CENSUS Total Population 31,183,582 Free Colored Persons 476,748 Total Free Population 27,233,198 Total Number of Slaves 3,950,528 Slaves as % of Population 13% Total Number of Families 5,155,608 Total Number of Slaveholders 393,975 % of Families Owning Slaves 8%

Destin FL
Username hidden
(14562 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
Sweetbutt:

You should read why Jefferson Davis said the South seceded and all the attention he gives to slavery and defending it in his Message to the Provisional Congress of the Confederate States. The economy of the South was a slave economy, and the power brokers of the states owned slaves. It would be like saying that oil was not of any interest in the War in Iraq because only 5% of the people work for oil companies or run oil companies.

Please cite me as well the statistic that only 5% of the people owned slavery. Do you deny that slavery was vitally important to the Southern economy? Try reading more in the website where you cited stuff to me and you can see where it claims that people who think slavery was not crucial and it was ecnomics are wrong. That's in the website you cited stuff for me. Look at the last sentence under Causes of the Civil War that I've already quoted.

Los Angeles CA
Username hidden
(4376 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
PerfectMatch: My logic and reason about the Civil War agrees with the logic and reason and evidence as interpreted by 100 historians. I'm not misreading their books. I can report to you what they said. If you want to tell me that 100 historians are wrong, and you are the one who has the truth, go ahead. Make me laugh. Make me feel sorry for your stubborness. Does anyone ever complain to you that you have problems listening?

Los Angeles CA
Username hidden
(4376 posts)
User Details are only visible to members.
"The north owned slaves too for farming and housekeeping, it was pervasive all over the country. "

The north didn't have the concentration of slaves that the south had mainly because of weather. The long winters without crops put a huge burden on owners, so slave holding in the North was usually urban and not due to agriculture as with the big farms/plantations of the South. So... spartan would be the word - not pervasive.

Battle Ground WA
Username hidden
(8696 posts)
GoTo Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Start   21 to 30 of 89   End
TOPIC: Still looking for the answers to many of Sapp's questions