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FORUMS General Discussions Politics Some Marines will leave if women in combat
TOPIC: Some Marines will leave if women in combat
Created by: Nkenswing
Original Starting post for this thread:
SAN DIEGO — A Marine Corps survey found that about 17 percent of male Marines would likely leave the Corps if women move into combat positions. The number jumped to 22 percent if women were assigned involuntarily to those jobs, according to the survey.

Male Marines also listed among their top concerns fears about being falsely accused of sexual harassment or assault, fraternization or some Marines getting preferential treatment. They also worried women would be limited because of pregnancy or personal issues that could affect the unit before they are sent to the battlefield.

Results of the survey of 53,000 Marines — both male and female — were released to The Associated Press on Friday.

The survey was conducted last summer and the results were given to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta before he opened thousands of combat jobs to female service members last week.

Both sexes surveyed mentioned intimate relationships between Marines and feeling obligated to protect female Marines among their top five concerns about allowing women into ground combat jobs.

Women Marines listed among their top three concerns enemies targeting women as POWs, the risk of sexual harassment or assault and hygiene requirements, according to the results which did not given specifics.

The survey asked female Marines if they would feel pressured to suppress their femininity, something equal rights activists found offensive.

About 4 percent of female Marines surveyed said they would consider leaving if the ban was lifted. Even more would drop out if women were put into those positions involuntarily, with about 17 percent of female respondents expressing they would cut their careers short under those circumstances.

About 31 percent of female respondents say they would be interested in moving into a combat position.

The commandant of the Marine Corps said the infantry side of the most male of all military branches is skeptical about how women will perform in their units, and some positions may end up closed again if too few females meet the physically demanding standards of combat.

The Marine Corps is the most male of all the military branches. About 7 percent of Marines are female compared to about 14 percent overall for the armed forces.

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girightshotline . org / en / military-knowledge-base/regulation/dependency-or-hardship-discharge/army#topic-ar-635-200-active-duty-enlisted-administrative-separations-27-april-2010

Straight out of the Army Seps Manual. Talks about intent (of hardship discharges) and criteria to be eligible.

T

Danville PA
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If you're claiming that the Army is a highly inefficient entity, then you are correct. That mostly comes from being so big though. Meanwhile, the smallest branch, the Marines, is also the most efficient.

"If you don't have anyone to take the child... You are out."

This speaks to the Parenting Plan (or whatever it's called) that all single parents and dual military spouses are required to have on file with their command. You must have a detailed plan in place for the care of your child for everything from getting assigned a 24 hour duty to year long deployments and everything in between.

If you don't have a plan, or if your plan shows that there is no one to care for the child during your absence, or if your plain fails (say your mother agrees to take your kid during deployment and then backs out at the last minute) then a discharge can be arranged. But as I said before, a single parent can't simply claim hardship on the grounds of being a single parent. They have to prove that hardship. Discharge for a single parent is the absolute last resort for the military. The exception might be if the unit is getting ready to deploy and a single parent skips out because no one is available to take the kid. In (rare) cases like that, a discharge might be the go to option.

T

Danville PA
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Cplo:

That sounds like a difference between active duty and national guard... The guard is less forgiving on single parents. If you don't have anyone to take the child... You are out.

The guard also seems better at disinformation to its subordanits than what the active duty is able to do....

But we are given one benefits briefing per year and ran through all of our rights and benefits like a trainee runs through the injection part of the medical review. Shots, both arms, two medical staff at the same time or cocktails.

There is a reason I didn't reenlist... Lying to me doesn't build loyalty or unit cohesion.

Hazle Township PA
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Cplo:

When tasking the same number of army vs air force personal of the same rank, with a complex task, the airforce personal seem to do the task with less oversight and faster than the army.

Case in point, the army core of engineers were tasked with some maintence work on the base I served on... My unit did their job because they didn't know how. We didn't have anyone trained to do it and we managed to figure it out in a day... When it took the army a month to ask for help.

When we were tasked with erecting buildings, our crane broke down... The army wanted to call it quits until it was fixed... We rolled in our boom fork lift and used it's boom as the crane.

Might be training differences between the army and airforce...

Oh and the army stole a grader from us... But that was a supply issue on the army side... They were use to... Liberating what they needed...

Hazle Township PA
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"cplo: Women who end up pregnant while in the sandbox cannot stay. They are sent back stateside. Yes they can receive an Article 15, but an Article 15 does not warrant a less than honorable discharge. "

I never said Article 15 warrants any type of discharge....because it doesn't.

"A woman can stay on active duty just like you suggest. But if she claims "hardship," no family support, single parent and won't be able to fulfill her duties, due to having to care for the baby, they are discharged."

Ah.....now the single parent angle is a bit different. But she has to do more than simply claim hardship, she has to prove it as well. In most cases, the military will make every attempt to accomodate the single parent before separating them. This might include orders to an I&I staff close(er) to home where family and friends might provide a better support network, along with fewer deployment possibilities (if any at all) and more stable working hours.

Can a women get discharged for getting pregnant? No. Can a woman seek separation based on the personal hardship that comes with single parenthood? Absolutely. But anyone can seek separation for personal hardship, not just single parents. Is separation/discharge the preferred method for the military when it comes to single parents? Absolutely not.

As of 2010, there were approximately 73,000 single parents serving in the active duty ranks.

w w w . a f .mil / news/story.asp?id=123205583

But what do I know? It's not like I've got nearly 20 years of experience or anything.

T

Danville PA
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Robert,

"Well, the army has a great many more lower educated"

I don't know what this means and didn't bother reading anything beyond this opening line of your post.

T

Danville PA
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cplo: Women who end up pregnant while in the sandbox cannot stay. They are sent back stateside. Yes they can receive an Article 15, but an Article 15 does not warrant a less than honorable discharge. A woman can stay on active duty just like you suggest. But if she claims "hardship," no family support, single parent and won't be able to fulfill her duties, due to having to care for the baby, they are discharged.

Tulare CA
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I know guys who got out because Clinton was elected/re-elected. Or because DADT was instituted. Or because DADT was repealed. Or because Obama was elected/re-elected.

I've also met salty old vets who say they would have made a career out of the military until they started letting minorities and women serve.

So there are definitely some guys out there right now, especially in combat arms MOSs, who will leave the military because they don't want women in combat. But it's not like half of the military is going to walk over this. The number of people who leave will be minimal and easily replaced.....maybe even replaced by a woman!

T

Danville PA
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Cplo:

Well, the army has a great many more lower educated... Maybe the commander blows smoke up their asses to get them to sign something that gets them out?

Either way, they are removed and slots opened.

While I do not like having to target women like this, I generally approve of the concept to remove unusable assets... They can't be deployed and they are often in mos's which can't be used in the states... So they get to return to college, college their diplomas and GE guys get nothing because they had to drop the year... Breaking their academic career which makes other funding harder.

I have had scolarshils reply to me saying that because I had a two year break between highschool and college, I wasn't able to be sponsored. (that break was basic training in the summer, tech school (army calls it AIT) and then a deployment.)

My unit didn't take care of the education benefits and wouldn't let us see the 193rd who did take care of them while on drill status... But we rarely got to train due to no space for the heavy equipment, time and expense constraints and mountains of paper work.

For 30 men, we had 6 computers to do online training... And the websites kicked you off every 10 minutes if you didn't click something... So when reading you had to skim over the material... And hope the computers processed the mouse clicks to the next page... Which took minutes to load and counted towards the time you had to review the material.

These sites were unusable at home as they kept damaging the hard drive. Spent seven hundred dollars on new hard drives durning my enlistment. military software security programs did something to my hard drives to make them useless after a few months granted I refused to give their programs full access and had programmed in a partition where the military softwhere was contained... For a time.

Might also have been hackers hacking the site and finding my unsecured connection. It is how I would try to penetrate a secured computer network... Piggybacking off another less secured vehicle.

But military ineffecency is t the topic here... At least for its education aspects.

Hazle Township PA
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JoannaJim said it best right away: this is the same sort of static that came up when units were desegregated and when gays/lesbians started serving. None of these guys will actually go through with it, this is non-news.

Easton PA
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TOPIC: Some Marines will leave if women in combat