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Senators who voted to GIVE Social Security Benefits to Illegal Aliens : Swingers Discussion 76457101
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TOPIC: Senators who voted to GIVE Social Security Benefits to Illegal Aliens
Created by: 38specials The original post for this thread was deleted.
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"I believe what the man was referring to is the use of a ITIN (Individual Tax Identification Number)." -------------------------------------------------- StPete,

Thanks for your post and your above comment is what I believed he called it. His "one number fits all' comment" was an metaphor he used. His point was that illegals are not prevented from filing a tax return and either getting an appropriate refund or paying back taxes. The agent also stated that those who filed but needed to repay back taxes to include SS are allowed to place the words "Awaiting a ITIN Number" at the top of the vouchers when submitting negotiated back taxes and SS. He covered this topic because there were several people in the class who seemed interested in this area. Maybe they were illegals or perparing tax returns for same.

Also, remember I took the course back in January, so I am remembering much of this off the top of my head - lol.

Since you were in the Air Force, like I was, I am sure you have heard similar comments about how one part of the government does not always know what another part does. The instructor emphasized that the IRS does NOT notify Immigration (ICE) as it is not their mandate to enforce immigration, only to properly enforce Treasury codes and laws, part of which is collecting taxes and SS. He did say an exception would be if an illegal or group of illegals was counterfeiting money, then most likely it would be a joint investigation not only involving them and ICE, but most likely other agencies as well.

Minden NV
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Sen

"The person who taught the class, a retired Treasury agent, stated that there is a "one use for all" Social Security number that tax preparer’s can use when filling for illegal aliens."

Sen, I'm probably not a lot of help here because believe it or not since 1984 (when I starting in taxation) I have never seen one of these numbers. However, from what knowledge I have I believe the retired IRS mispoke. I've done a little research, not a lot as it's early for me LOL, from what I can tell there IS NOT a "one use for all" social security number. I believe what the man was referring to is the use of a ITIN (Individual Tax Identification Number). This number is different number (not the same for all) having the same number of digits as a SSN (ie 9). However, I believe this number is formatted differently (I think it started with an alpha character if I remember correctly - at any rate is is formatted differently).

There was a couple of puposes for the start of these ITIN's. First, there are immigrant's here legally (ie student VISA's) who work in the US and need to file tax returns to obtain refunds from IRS. This number allowed them to file tax returns to obtain refunds but does not get into the SS system. They apply for this number using form W-7 which states at the top of the application form that it is for "tax filing purposes only". Then there are US citizens with illegal immigrant spouses with children. IRS found that these us citizens were not filing "joint" returns with their "illegal" spouse, instead they were lying about their filing status as "single, head of household" and claiming the children. As a result these US citizens were getting EIC (earned income credit) refunds they were not entitled to "if" they had filed a "joint" return. Therefore, IRS allows the application for the ITIN so these people can file "joint".

The system however, has been abused as IRS cannot tell who is legal or illegal from the application. They apparantly must only show some ID such as a VISA card or drivers license to obtain the number. Obviously drivers licenses are easy to obtain or fake. In addition, illegal immigrants are faking SSN's in order to obtain employment and then using the ITIN to file their tax returns. A lot of the illegal immigrants "hope" that by filing tax reuturns it will help them in the future to obtain "legal status".

Each year IRS matches W-2's filed by employers with records from the SS Administration and notifies the employer of the mismatches (I believe it's called a B notice) in an effort to get the employer to correct any errors. For those differences that cannot be corrected, the tax withheld is placed in a suspense fund (ESF I believe for short).

This year I am not involved in the practice of preparing tax returns for the public. As of May last year I accepted a position in my brothers construction company as his Accounting Manager....mainly for keeping the books and keeping track of the profitability of each job. However, he does tap me to keep his company up with all taxes and payroll. Therefore, I establish company policy and do compliance myself for the company. For "every" employee, the obvious or not (even myself), I collect a form I-9 a copy of SS Card and drivers license. I also go one more step, I go online to the SS Website and signed up to "verify" SSN's with the SS Administration. Also in the state of Florida, in an effort to control dead beat parents, we have a law that says we have to report "all" new hires to the state within 20 days of hire. That way the new hire gets checked for any child support.

St Petersburg FL
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pat,

My tax attorney was unavailable this year, she is out of state caring for an ailing relative and sent a (form) letter stating she would not be doing taxes this year. So at the last minute my wife and I attended one of those IRS free 2 day seminars on taxes. The person who taught the class, a retired Treasury agent, stated that there is a "one use for all" Social Security number that tax preparer’s can use when filling for illegal aliens.

I was totally taken back by that and everyone in the room began asking questions and bombarding the agent concerning that. Many people felt that the IRS was enabling illegals while another part of the government (ICE) was trying to enforce the law. Seems contradictory. However, the agent without taking a position on a person being in this country legally or illegally, stated if they paid into the system they should be able to file a return and receive the appropriate refund.

I think StPete is an accountant with tax knowledge maybe he can also provide some insight into this.

Minden NV
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"I forgot to answer your question LOL I have read somewhere that many of the illegals are paying into SS and it adds billions of dollars a year to the fund." --------------------------------------------------------- The problem with that analogy is illegal (or to be PC undocumented) aliens are only paying into SS if the employer is being honest and not paying them off the books, as well as reporting their correct salaries. Also in the case of the gaming industry, as well as the produce and farming industry (possibly other jobs as well) many people are "contract" employees, meaning that the employee is responsible for paying their own taxes and SS every 3 months.

After I retired from the USAF, I worked for a major Casino & Hotel Conglomerate for 7 years. Under my umbrella I employed "contractors" in various positions. It lowers the cost for the Casinos as "contractors", unlike direct employees are not eligible for the companies health and dental care plans, nor does the company match any contributions the "contractor" may be making into a 401k or 403b plan.

Minden NV
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"Even a legal citizen of the US cant pull out of SS if they didnt pay into it" ---------------------------------------------------- Not entirely correct. My Mom was a stay home Mom for her entire adult life. She married my Dad at 18 and never was in the work force. Her job was providing a home for my Dad and being the primary parent to my two sisters and myself. She gets SS, not much but she does receive same. There is a formula for people who were a stay at home parent or spouse.

If my Dad passes before her, she will receive the amount he is currently receiving and the amount she is getting will stop.

Minden NV
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Even if they paid into it they should not be entitled. No debate there.

Imperial MO
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Hey Mike!

I will vote for you....you can't be any worse then the current crop of candidates that either major party is supporting - lol.

Minden NV
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Thanks Sen, I totally agree with you about congress voting on their own package. We should all have that benefit *L* I will read again, but the question I wonder about too is, do they even come close to paying the same percentage that we citizenzs do? I doubt it, considering what their advantage is after only 6 years of servioce. And full medical and dental for life for them and families? The best we can hope for is part D with a donut hole...and a big one at that. And that's IF we are lucky enough to get anything at all. As it stands we certainly are not guaranteed anything in terms of what is provided now vs what will be there when we hit the age of retirement. Frankly, I wouldn't mind having the option to take that money and invest it myself. But I want ALL the money I've already paid in back in my pocket. LOL...fat chance.

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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The Social Security Act of 1983. Up until that time Social Security Provisions originally applied to "workers in commerce and industry (except railroad) under age 65 in the continental United States, Alaska, Hawaii and on American Vessels". It was believed that the wording was confusing and that it was arbitrary as it was applied to exempt some government workers, yet included others, it also could and was applied in different parts of the U.S. to exempt some farm workers, doctors and lawyers as well. Reagan and the sitting Congress closed that loophole. After it was closed many in Congress realized it applied to them as well. I was unaware of this until in the late 1990's when it was pointed out to me that my perception that Congress does not pay into it was false.

However, what Congress did was elect to provide there own retirement plan, which members of Congress would approve for each other. The plan is designed that if they serve a minimum of 6 years in the House or Senate they can receive a pension on a prorated scale. Average pension after just six years is approximately $56,000 a year for life, PLUS full medical and dental for them and their family for life!

If they serve 20 or more years, members of Congress can vote that the member receive a "special" retirement package. Example two years ago Robert Byrd, West Virginia was voted to receive 1.25 million dollars for his long service and his wife was to receive $500,000. If a member of congress accepts a pension after 6 years or a retirement package for long term service they are not allowed to use social security. Hell, I would take the pension over the social security any day. To me Congress voting on their own salaries, pensions and retirements is just plain wrong.

Minden NV
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Sen, show me where. I want to read it...and thanks *S*

Palm Beach Gardens FL
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TOPIC: Senators who voted to GIVE Social Security Benefits to Illegal Aliens