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Remember Fukushima : Swingers Discussion 209971101
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TOPIC: Remember Fukushima
Created by: TheGhost_and_MrsMuir
Original Starting post for this thread:
Well, it seems it's still hotter than a single male on SLS.

Read more: On Wednesday, a new videoscope of the basement of the crippled reactor 1 at the Fukushima Dai'chi Nuclear power plant showed disturbingly high levels of radiation. Japanese engineers inserted a camera trough the canalization system into the basement. Just above the radioactive waters, the engineers measured an alarming high level of 10300 milisieverts/hours. In this environment, means a Japanese nuclear power plant worker would reach his year limit within 15 to 20 seconds. 20 to 30 minutes would be enough to render a perfectly healthy adult very sick. Symptoms of acute radiation sickness would appear resulting in death by heart or multiple organ failure. Tepco announced yesterday that the other accidented units 2 and 3 don't show such a high level of radiation. Nevertheless over 1 Sievert (1000milisievert/h) have been measured in outside these units. Tepco announced that the demolition and clean up of the crippled reactors might take up to 50 years.

More here:

nukeprofessional.blogspot.c om/2012/10/radiation-spreading-across-us-update.h tml

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I debated the guy's understanding from the get-go and I've gotten into specifics about his arguments and statements many times. Apparently you haven't noticed.

I'm not saying ALL of them are untrue or distorted, but he doesn't seem to understand the logical connections.

i.e. it's 68 degrees outside, the stock market is (whatever), and Obama is President.

Uh... yeah, not a misstatement, just a meaningless one.....

Chesapeake VA
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Again with the attack on the messenger? Who cares where I got the quotes? I can go and find most of the same from some very serious people and places, how does that change the situation on the ground? Why not actually address the post and the issues presented within? Regardless of the source, the issues themselves are real. You don't have a problem with the secrecy? You don't have a problem with the chronic lies and evasion? Yes, there seems to be some good progress, but how does one confirm that?

You do realize that this type of maneuver (attacking the source without addressing the issues) is indicative of someone with no reply to the material at hand? I now you are educated and a scientist, but sometimes VA, your ideology blinds you.. Or maby this shithole just makes you lazy debator...

East Fishkill NY
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I actually looked at the link you posted in your OP.

You can say this is "attacking the source" all you like, but if I posted anything from someone who was a self-proclaimed "prepper" you'd all be laughing me out of the building.

"Print these list now, in a font you can read in lower light. When the SHTF there won't be electricity, computers, thumbdrives, readers. "

As I said in my initial reply, this guy's understanding of most nuclear anything is, at best, "google-grade" and yes, practically the entire thing is hysterical. The guy is a 9/11 truther with all of the other typical ridiculousness that goes along with it. I especially liked his post about a 26-toed cat.

I've been to Key West. Hemingway's cats are still there and have been since long before nuke anything. Enjoy your lemon-balm tea.

Chesapeake VA
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Incidentally, I did a little googling to see how this is proceeding. I think we'll agree that being this far along with no incidents is good news, irrespective of our disagreements about probabilities of further 'trouble'.

As of May 12, 792 out of 1,331 spent fuel assemblies and 22 out of 202 new fuel assemblies have been removed from the Unit 4 building, where most of the fuel at the plant was kept, and put into storage. A little over halfway after 6 months. So far so good. Scheduled to be complete by the end of the year.

[the spent fuel assemblies are much more hazardous than the new ones, so it makes sense that they are being prioritized]

Also incidentally, I'd say it's probably accurate to say that "no news is good news" i.e. if something terrible happened, we'd be hearing about it. "Everything went OK" might be comforting, but it's not very exciting news.

Chesapeake VA
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"They would require multiple failures in equipment, judgement and planning in order for that to happen though."

Right, we've never seen that here before.....

Why not actually read some of the links I post? You would find amazing correlations with what you write by accident.

East Fishkill NY
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"What do,you think the chances are that the entire building topples"

I do not have the information needed to make such an assessment. I'm going to venture to guess that those involved in dealing with this have a better grip on it.

"the assemblies hit the ground in a jumble and no one can get close enough to remediate it, let alone maintain the other reactions happening on site?"

If those involved in this have any brains whatsoever they would not accumulate a large number of them outside of the pools prior to transferring to... wherever they are taking them.

"My point is and always was that this event is being stomped on HARD by the governments of Japan and the us and the media is cooperating with the news brownout. Will we find out the shit has hit the fan the same way we did with Chernobyl? By accidental detection hundreds of miles away?"

I won't deny we don't hear much about it these days. And for the 2,400th time I agree it is a serious situation. But I do not buy into the statements which suggest this is a terribly frightful situation sitting on a knife-edge, waiting to blast crap all over the eastern hemisphere. Yes, there are things that can still go wrong. They would require multiple failures in equipment, judgement and planning in order for that to happen though.

The statements about the radiation leaked out are, I believe, overblown. When they say things like "I-131 is 10,000x above normal", well, one must remember that the amount of I-131 normally found in the environment is practically zero, so 10,000x practically zero is, well, still pretty close to zero. It's like me putting on 1 second of "Ice Ice Baby" and saying that my listening to Vanilla Ice is up 10,000x above normal.

Again - not dismissing the very real dangers of radiation exposure. Much of the focus has always been on I-131, which is one of the most dangerous isotopes, and spikes the highest above "normal", but the fact is the half life is only 8 days and within a couple of months there would be practically none left, and by now it is virtually zero. Longer-lived, more problematic isotopes are ones like Cs-137 and Sr-90 don't make the news so much but are the real headaches.

In the end, the actual human toll of this mess will, I believe, be relatively small. While I don't celebrate human loss - ever - what's done is done and the scientist in me insists we turn such disasters into learning opportunities. We continue to get better at what we do. The double-whammy of a major earthquake and then tsunami on a plant like that 30 years ago would have been truly catastrophic. While real dangers remain, professional panic-mongers like that clown you cited are not people I pay any attention to.

Chesapeake VA
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Ok, so a criticality incident is unlikely. What do,you think the chances are that the entire building topples, the assemblies hit the ground in a jumble and no one can get close enough to remediate it, let alone maintain the other reactions happening on site?

My point is and always was that this event is being stomped on HARD by the governments of Japan and the us and the media is cooperating with the news brownout. Will we find out the shit has hit the fan the same way we did with Chernobyl? By accidental detection hundreds of miles away?

To me, arguing minutia allows us to ignore the major problem; nobody knows what is or is not happening and the us stopped monitoring radiological levels in pacific caught fish. Anyone else see a problem here?

East Fishkill NY
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I've made some misstatements. While I'd prefer to hold it up as an example of me admitting that I'm wrong on something, which you say I never do, you can do what you like with it.

Moderators actually encourage propagation of a nuclear chain reaction by slowing fast neutrons to thermal neutrons. Light (i.e. normal) water is a rather piss-poor moderator and is used as coolant for this reason.

None of this changes what I said, however. Cooling loss can only lead to a criticality excursion if the decay heat is sufficient to actually melt the fuel rods. 3 years after SCRAM, the rods will still be a little bit "hot" but not enough to actually melt or burn. After 3 years the decay heat should be around 0.02% of reactor power, i.e. around 2 kW per *ton* of fuel, which is the output from a household range oven on "self-clean" mode. While not exactly Ben and Jerry's cool, it's also well within all reasonable capabilities to maintain.

So anyway - I acknowledge my mistake about neutron moderators. I nevertheless maintain that the fuel rods are no longer in and of themselves capable of going critical due to a coolant loss, barring I suppose some fool stacking tons and tons of them in the most favorable configuration and leaving them there dry for hours or even days. Even then, it would not lead to criticality, but instead to a fire and nasty radiological contamination. It would take a concerted effort of sabotage by numerous workers to make that happen.

Chesapeake VA
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I will clarify - if a coolant is doubling as a moderator (such as heavy water in CANDU designs) then the coolant (in its capacity as a moderator) can mitigate a criticality. However, this is not the case for the Fukushima reactors, which are light water designs. Light water is a poor neutron moderator and all coolant does is prevent a meltdown when dealing with residual decay heat in the hours following a shutdown or SCRAM, which is why Fukushima had such problems in the first place.

A pile of nuclear material is going to be critical or not. The absence or presence of coolant (i.e. water) matters not.

Chesapeake VA
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I don't need to try again. I understand what a criticality is, what causes it, what prevents it, etc. Your inability to do so isn't my problem.

Chesapeake VA
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TOPIC: Remember Fukushima