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TOPIC: Predictions!!!
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You're not answering the question, and again are resorting to emotional arguments. You ignore all of my logical arguments (flawed or not) and just went straight for the only arrow you have in your quiver: the boss is a jerk.

Your boss is Ebenezer Scrooge. He is the greediest bastard in history. You only get bare minimum raises because he knows he has to retain you somehow. His taxes go up. Now he brings home less money. Could you possibly expect his chances of giving you a bigger raise to go up?

Windermere FL
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By paying a living wage, a boss may expect some loyalty from his employees. More to the point, he may have some continuity in the processes of his business. He may also enjoy some respect, both within and outside his company, in the community.

If these have all come to mean "pain" to a financially successful person, then maybe he isn't even a member of the community at all, but merely a plunderer. If his only self-respecting reaction is to leave town with his business, then your town has lost a plunderer. So what?

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..."you may reasonably expect a raise."

Is that overly "emotional"?

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"I can't tell if this is a deliberately loaded question, or a paraphrase of a currently popular theme of the far right, or what. If your boss makes plenty of money, and the workers are barely (or not even) getting by, you may reasonably expect a raise. Is this what you mean by "inflicting economic pain" on him?"]

I'm not a parrot for anyone buddy.

And, although you are doing exactly what I said and resorting to the emotional argument - yes, that's what I mean.

Allow me to paraphrase it. Ask yourself this: how is a reduction in my boss' economic situation going to somehow benefit me? How could it?

Windermere FL
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"The basic question I've always asked is - how can one possibly expect any positive outcome from inflicting any amount of economic pain on their boss (whether you think they deserve it or not)?" ;;;;;;;;;;;;;

I can't tell if this is a deliberately loaded question, or a paraphrase of a currently popular theme of the far right, or what.

If your boss makes plenty of money, and the workers are barely (or not even) getting by, you may reasonably expect a raise. Is this what you mean by "inflicting economic pain" on him?

If your municipality wants more taxes from his business, knowing full well that he can easily afford it, and these taxes would help give your children decent schools and parks, would you assume this civil benefit would only register as "pain" to him?

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Economic analysis peppered with personal insights coming from FJ, Having and Curious. So nice to start the new week with intellectual giants.

Moncton Nothing
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The CBO issued a report a few days ago claiming that the tax increase Obama wants on the higher earners will net approximately $30 billion per year.

It also estimates it will have a "very small" impact on economic growth. Reducing GDP growth from an estimated (and pathetic) 1.5% per year to 1.25% per year (i.e. a reduction of 0.25%).

0.25% of our GDP is $37.5 billion.

The basic question I've always asked is - how can one possibly expect any positive outcome from inflicting any amount of economic pain on their boss (whether you think they deserve it or not)?

I predict 2012 will be a smaller than expected deficit, because investors will sell a lot, realize their capital gains, and pay the taxes on them at the (lower) 2012 rates. From that point on, not as good. The capital gains tax increase (which most people don't give a flying fuck about) will be the biggie.

As tbr points out, capital gains taxes are not in most people's life experience. I do not dispute that at all, but the argument always seems like a distraction to me, as if monkeying with tax rates that most people don't encounter somehow doesn't impact anything. People generally don't think or care about a tax that doesn't impact them (or they THINK doesn't impact them). If there were some kind of massive excise tax placed on coal, for example, most people would probably support it, since they don't own coal, don't mine coal, and don't buy coal. But then when their electricity bill goes way up, they complain about how the power company is screwing them - not having the slightest idea about how this all came about.

I had run some detailed numbers before on here about how when one calculates the expected value of an investment (including all probable outcomes and their associated tax implications) even a small increase in the capital gains tax suddenly turns winners into losers, and the net effect is to discourage capital investment. I didn't really get any argument, as I recall, but people tend to fall back on the emotional arguments about what they perceive as "fair".

As for the "fiscal cliff" - it strains logic to claim that we are approaching some kind of fiscal cliff with respect to across the board tax increases (implying they will have broad negative effects on the economy) while simultaneously claiming that the tax cuts didn't benefit the same people that reversing them will allegedly harm. If the cuts "benefited" primarily the rich in the first place, how would putting them all back the way they were not pretty much be sticking it to the rich anyway?

So - go over the fiscal cliff. Do it. Those who claim the "Bush tax cuts" did nothing to help the middle class have absolutely no argument whatsoever to support the notion that reversing them will hurt them.

Windermere FL
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"It isn't having a tantrum it was forwarned"

Forewarned my hairy white ass! Not a single business that laid off workers NEEDED to right away. It is a childish temper tantrum being thrown by big babies at this point.

But that's not surprising at all...

East Fishkill NY
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Seems a few people said let it fail back before Obama became president. Some people thought it was crazy. LOL

Sanford NC
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I agree TBR let it fall.

I am afraid they will just push it again down the road, that will lessen the dollars value .

Lawmakers seem to be solely worried about the next election, not the prudent thing to do.

Middletown NY
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TOPIC: Predictions!!!
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