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On Line Refresher Course on American history, politics, culture and, yes, the Civil War : Swingers Discussion 99694
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FORUMSGeneral DiscussionsPoliticsOn Line Refresher Course on American history, politics, culture and, yes, the Civil War
TOPIC: On Line Refresher Course on American history, politics, culture and, yes, the Civil War
Created by: sappholovers
Original Starting post for this thread:
So let's everyone propose some issues to be discussed where it would be valuable to use historical perspective to address them, or let's share points of view about issues in American history such as we've been trying to do about the Civil War.

I love American history, literature, politics, and it's actually fun to see people in the political threads engaged in wanting to learn more about the Civil War, the Constitution, the political tactics of the Democratic and GOP parties, Ronald Reagan's position on Ciivil Rights, and other issues and conflicts from the past that can help provide perspective on American in 2008 and on the ideals that unite this nation and the interests and issues that divide it.

So I want to start a thread where we can raise questions and discuss issues about America, past and present, in ways where a better understanding of the past might help us understand the present and future of the USA.

My preference is that we try to engage these questions without insults and name-calling and try to present arguments in ways respected in debate clubs and in scholarship about the past, i.e., with a preference for backing up points with facts, evidence, and respected source material.

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Barack Hussein Obama, born in Hawaii to a radical Muslim father and an atheist mother who divorced and married another radical Muslim who sent Hussein to a Muslim school.. Now he attends and is mentored by a black radical church who bestowed honors on Farrakhan(sp) a known racist and anti Semite. He accepts money, advice and comfort from a Syrian crook indicted and going on trial in March(Antoin Rezko, Chicago slum lord), a man who supports the PLO( Rashid Alidi ) and Bill Ayers (A central figure in the Weathermen, New Left & SDS, Ayers lived underground for ten years), who bombed the pentagon, the US Capitol and NY police station and declared war against the USA...hussein is a socialist, the most liberal voting record(when he votes, he also has the most present votes) in the US Senate. Do we really want or need such an amateur as President?...when you tell the story tell the WHOLE story!

Destin FL
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Question # 1:

Did the Constitution make a commitment to equality or did it include in its language a commitment to the principle of the the Declaration of Independence that "all men are created equal"?

My answer is: No. The Constitution made no express commitment to "all men are created equal" and instead it sanctioned slavery, a sanction that almost led to failure of Northern and Southern states to join together in the quest to create a "more perfect union."

From a talk I gave on the Constitution:

Now, let us take a close look at the language of the Constitution where it sanctions slavery. In Article IV, the exactness and precision of statute language is not used to clarify but to euphemize: “No person held to service or labour in one State under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labour, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labour be due.”

There is no mention of the word slave, but slavery is the subject. At the convention, George Mason, in a burst of prophecy that we would later hear from writers from Frederick Douglass and Harriet Beecher Stowe through James Baldwin, warned his colleagues, “As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world they must in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects, Providence punishes national sins by national calamities.”

During John Quincy Adams’ defense of the slaves who had revolted on the Amistad, Adams pointed out that the framers had hid the sin of slavery under the fig leaf of a circumlocution—“person held to service”—and he sought, as did Douglass and William Lloyd Garrison, to rip off the veil of words concerning the country’s original sin and to perform the task of calling things—and people who had been reduced to things—by their right names, and this quest for representative words is the quest that so many American writers would continue, demanding honesty and accuracy and truth from the language of the Constitution, as well as the English language.

As Thurgood Marshall argues in a his essay on the Constitution written in the year of the Bicentennial: “If we seek…a sensitive understanding of the Constitution’s inherent defects, and its promising evolution through 200 years of history, the celebration of the ‘Miracle at Philadelphia’ will, in my view, be a far more meaningful and humbling experience. We will see the true miracle was not the birth of the Constitution, but its life, a life nurtured through two turbulent centuries of our own making…..”

Not until 1865, with the passage of the 13th amendment was slavery outlawed in the United States. Not until 1920, with the passage of the 19th amendment, did women receive the right to vote.

“We the People,” Marshall adds, “no longer enslaves, but the credit does not belong to the Framers. It belongs to those who refused to acquiesce in outdated notions of “liberty,” “justice,” and “equality,” and who strived to better them,” and it is these dissenters—these voices of dissonance—that we must celebrate along with the founders on Constitution Day

Los Angeles CA
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So let's everyone propose some issues to be discussed where it would be valuable to use historical perspective to address them, or let's share points of view about issues in American history such as we've been trying to do about the Civil War.

I love American history, literature, politics, and it's actually fun to see people in the political threads engaged in wanting to learn more about the Civil War, the Constitution, the political tactics of the Democratic and GOP parties, Ronald Reagan's position on Ciivil Rights, and other issues and conflicts from the past that can help provide perspective on American in 2008 and on the ideals that unite this nation and the interests and issues that divide it.

So I want to start a thread where we can raise questions and discuss issues about America, past and present, in ways where a better understanding of the past might help us understand the present and future of the USA.

My preference is that we try to engage these questions without insults and name-calling and try to present arguments in ways respected in debate clubs and in scholarship about the past, i.e., with a preference for backing up points with facts, evidence, and respected source material.

Los Angeles CA
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TOPIC: On Line Refresher Course on American history, politics, culture and, yes, the Civil War