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Oh boy : Swingers Discussion 2198631011
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TOPIC: Oh boy
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VA:

Who created that stress? Big Business did. They told the workers work harder, longer and for less... Or we close the doors and you are out of a job.

Hazle Township PA
 
 
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If I may, one more....

I think ultimately this will need to occur at the state level first. Seven states have already done it and shown they can function just fine with it without negatively impacting their situations, and in most cases they have done well and attracted business and investment because of it. As more states do it, eventually there will be noise at the federal level to at least begin to talk about it.

Chesapeake VA
 
 
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One more point about the black market thing....

Here's a major difference: Currently, some small businesses can do things in cash to escape the current system. However, this requires one conspirator - the businessman himself, although the customer may have an inkling. With a stress at the retail/service level, however, this requires the customer to be blatantly in on the deal, which discourages such dealings.

Mind you - considering that a self-employed person is paying upwards of 40-50% stress on their earnings, how is escaping a 23/30% stress a *bigger* incentive? If anything, it's less. For retail sales - those items have been purchased wholesale pre-stress, and the owner is taking a huge risk if they are ever asked to account for where those items went to.

Chesapeake VA
 
 
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I think most people tend to discount the idea that since the stress of doing business would be so dramatically lower that prices would come down, especially for things produced in the USA itself. Our competitiveness level is dramatically improved and the flow of jobs overseas would be reversed overnight.

As for big ticket items - some of that already occurs, but the general predictions tend to be that the end cost of most items would remain relatively static, and there wouldn't be much of an incentive to look elsewhere.

The cost and ease of doing business is ultimately what drives jobs overseas. I don't think anyone disputes that. We can argue about the morality of such actions ad nauseum, but the best solution in my opinion is to stop it by removing the incentive to do it.

I know the sticker shock of the whole thing tends to put people off, even if you can demonstrate on paper that they would likely be better off. That was the goal of Mr. Cain's 9-9-9 plan. While it had serious problems with the specifics, it was intended to get the ball rolling in that direction, and I think it's a shame it didn't get the attention it deserved. I think it's an excellent starting point for discussion. Unfortunately, the conversation quickly towards what he was doing with his dick, which made for more interesting gossip but not much else.

As for black market - we already have a black market escaping enormous stress levels. That was what kicked off this thread in the first place. I forget the exact specifics, but it was shown once that something like 80% of retail purchases were made at just 600 businesses in the country (your Home Depot, WalMart, BestBuy and Olive Gardens of the world). It seems unlikely that businesses like this would engage in mass stress avoidance conspiracy, especially since unlike the current stress system, the avoidance would have to be out in the open, since it is applied directly at the point of sale, as opposed to crunched by a computer in a dark room somewhere.

The predicted effects on business are absolutely staggering, and there likely wouldn't be enough people to fill the jobs, which is the best kind of job market to have if you're a worker bee. This thread is about capital flight, and as I previously pointed out, all of the capital which is currently hiding elsewhere to escape stress (estimated at $7 trillion) would no longer have a reason to do so. When a big chunk of it comes home, what do you think will happen?

And to answer to the RHs of the world who would say that Mitt Romney would just buy a $200 million mansion with an airstrip and a private jet on it - great. Someone has to build those things. And he will pay the stress when he does.

Chesapeake VA
 
 
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"Oh admit it- there are some posts that just beg for a smartass comment. I just wish my ass was smart enough to make the comment."

Lol; true that. But I just wish my ass were restrained enough NOT to make the comment sometimes. I need to write myself a sign and keep it taped to my dressing room mirror: "You are NOT required to poke fun at every fool on the Internets!"

Belle Chasse LA
 
 
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"An additional advantage is that there is no longer a system to game, beat, avoid, manipulate,"

I'm not so sure of that though. Estimates are that there would have to be about 30% stress levels for this to be neutral against the current baseline. You are the last person who needs to be told that reaction to such a significant increase wouldn't remain static. Black markets and bartering for the little people, and offshore purchases of big ticket items by the big boys, are all possible. Lots of unanswered questions.

Belle Chasse LA
 
 
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"There is significant progressivity in that system. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying or doesn't understand it."

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest it can't be incorporated into a FairStress system, only that it needs to be. Various FairStress proposals out there have done so. But a prebate has some problems of its own that would need to be worked out.

Ya know, people often say that the stress system shouldn't be used as a tool to encourage or discourage certain behaviors. But the fact is that ANY system will incent some things and disincent others. My basic nature is that frugality beats gorging, and a system that incents this would be a good thing.

(Apologies for using any terms that might enlarge the radar footprint of this stealth discussion, or provide too many clues to the Idiot Cryptography Corpse.)

Belle Chasse LA
 
 
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Oh admit it- there are some posts that just beg for a smartass comment. I just wish my ass was smart enough to make the comment.

Brooklyn Park MN
 
 
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"[I] was foolish enough to think that serious discussions could take place"

I remember that comment you made, and I disagree with you that serious discussions cannot take place. The problem is that too many idiots and assholes intervene and derail serious discussions.

They can and occasionally do happen, provided the right people get serious about it.

I will not deny that I have been the occasional asshole inserting smartass comments into a serious discussion in an attempt to have a giggle.

Chesapeake VA
 
 
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There is significant progressivity in that system. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying or doesn't understand it.

But - the idea is that a lot we chose to put in OTHER piggybanks comes back to ours, and a lot from other countries to boot. That would be very beneficial to the economy - a huge and very real influx.

Anyone who has ever dealt with the corporate management world knows that considering the stress implications of every decision is cumbersome, obstructive, and absolutely wasteful. It is a terrible drag on everything. An additional advantage is that there is no longer a system to game, beat, avoid, manipulate, or coerce politicians into massaging to make it more palatable to just you.

Chesapeake VA
 
 
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TOPIC: Oh boy