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More violent deaths in US than other wealthy nations, report shows : Swingers Discussion 2151311071
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TOPIC: More violent deaths in US than other wealthy nations, report shows
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I'm thinking the demographic distinction should not be along racial lines, but along the lines of employment, income, and the like. Poverty drives people to desperation. It doesn't matter if they're black or white. Rich people don't usually feel they have to shoot someone to survive.

Flat Rock NC
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Ah, so you tell me I'm not addressing the problem; and when I do, it's "wild conjecture". Your statistics were wild and reckless, but they shouldn't be challenged. Interesting priorities.

Flat Rock NC
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I'll repeat what I said earlier:

"It appears to the casual observer that the gun manufacturers are selling mostly to white people, who are often selling (or losing) some of their guns to criminals, who then shoot mostly black people."

It's mostly black/poor Americans mostly shooting black/poor Americans. But how do they so easily come by the guns they use?

Is it maybe, possibly because guns are easy to come by, for "law abiding citizens"? And then it's really easy to move these guns to those who want them, law abiding or not?

Since something like half of white Americans are racist, maybe they actually like the notion that their guns are going to black people who will likely kill other black people.

Yes, it's an ugly and uncomfortable thought. It's small consolation to me that I'm neither a gun pusher nor a racist.

Flat Rock NC
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"It appears to the casual observer that the gun manufacturers are selling mostly to white people, who are often selling (or losing) some of their guns to criminals, who then shoot mostly black people.

Since something like half of white Americans are racist, maybe they actually like the notion that their guns are going to black people who will likely kill other black people."

I bring statistics. You bring wild, ridiculous conjecture.

Chesapeake VA
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.." if you are going to use statistics to drive policy, you're going to come up with some very VERY uncomfortable policies. "

OK, well, misusing statistics never does any good, for any purpose, at any time. It just makes people mistrust statistics, or the people presenting them.

Statistics are just the quantification of facts, and they're a useful tool. Any idiot can misuse any tool. That says nothing about the value of the proper use of the tool.

Feel free at any time to get on the good side of numbers usage. Confusion is the derelict use of communication.

Flat Rock NC
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Of course not.

I'd trust a black person to watch my kids, though. I judge each person according to their merits.

My point was if you are going to use statistics to drive policy, you're going to come up with some very VERY uncomfortable policies.

The report in question completely focused on guns. It completely ignored (according to the snippet presented here) what is by FAR the biggest difference between the US and other wealthy nations. And so are you. And so does everyone, because it's not a fun thing to talk about.

Chesapeake VA
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So you would try to find a mentally ill person to babysit your kids? You would go to a school board meeting and argue that only mentally ill people should be considered for security?

I suspect perhaps the criteria are different for the 1/6 of Americans who are mentally ill -- and this surely includes depression, obsessive-compulsive, and other mostly harmless diagnoses -- and those murderers who have been classified as mentally unfit to stand trial.

Numbers don't lie, but they most certainly can be misinterpreted.

Flat Rock NC
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I'll write it again.

If our homicide rate were 3, I don't think we'd be having the same conversation.

Demographics are a far better predictor of homicide rate than guns. This is inescapable. Ignore the elephant in the room all you like.

Chesapeake VA
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Mental illness:

1994 study estimates 1,170 homicides by people with mental illness.

E. F. Torrey, Violent behavior by individuals with serious mental illness, Hospital and Community Psychiatry 45:653–662, 1994

2000 study estimates 1,522. So fine, elevate my number from 1,200 to 1,500.

H. Harwood, A. Ameen, G. Denmead et al., The Economic Costs of Mental Illness, Rockville, Md.: NIMH, 2000

As for the race numbers - those are straight from the FBI.

Chesapeake VA
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Which do you challenge?

The race #s? Or mental illness?

Chesapeake VA
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TOPIC: More violent deaths in US than other wealthy nations, report shows