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TOPIC: Meaningful work without education Prove it!
Created by: Robert_Hil
Original Starting post for this thread:
I challenge anyone who claims that they walked into their employers office without skills, education, experience, and knowing someone in the company, to label the business or type of business that they work for.

I keep hearing how you on the right (magically only the right) keep saying that you came in off the streets and worked your way up withou an education or skills. Label the industries which this is possible, or be called liar's.

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haha, no. I suggest you actually read the article you posted. These conditions are the result of wealthy capitalists driving up rents to where wage-earners can't even come close to affording a decent place to live.

Flat Rock NC
 
 
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Out: I belive you have miss read the article. This is the housing the government is providing. That is not capitalism. This is an example of Robert's belief system. Government take care of me.

Tulare CA
 
 
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Mark, do you realize that you've described Hong Kong in capitalism?

Flat Rock NC
 
 
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"When we were in secondary school, we had some sort of experiment where we put many rats in a small box. They would bite each other," said Fung. "When living spaces are so congested, they would make people feel uneasy, desperate," and angry at the government, he said. Leung, the cage dweller, had little faith that the government could do anything to change the situation of people like him. "It's not whether I believe him or not, but they always talk this way. What hope is there?" said Leung, who has been living in cage homes since he stopped working at a market stall after losing part of a finger 20 years ago. With just a Grade 7 education, he was only able to find intermittent casual work. He hasn't applied for public housing because he doesn't want to leave his roommates to live alone and expects to spend the rest of his life living in a cage. His only income is HK$4,000 ($515) in government assistance each month. After paying his rent, he's left with $2,700 ($350), or about HK$90 ($11.60) a day. "It's impossible for me to save," said Leung, who never married and has no children to lean on for support. Leung and his roommates, all of them single, elderly men, wash their clothes in a bucket. The bathroom facilities consist of two toilet stalls, one of them adjoining a squat toilet that doubles as a shower stall. There is no kitchen, just a small room with a sink. The hallway walls have turned brown with dirt accumulated over the years. While cage homes, which sprang up in the 1950s to cater mostly to single men coming in from mainland China, are becoming rarer, other types of substandard housing such as cubicle apartments are growing as more families are pushed into poverty. Nearly 1.19 million people were living in poverty in the first half of last year, up from 1.15 million in 2011, according to the Hong Kong Council Of Social Services. There's no official poverty line but it's generally defined as half of the city's median income of HK$12,000 ($1,550) a month. Many poor residents have applied for public housing but face years of waiting. Nearly three-quarters of 500 low-income families questioned by Oxfam Hong Kong in a recent survey had been on the list for more than 4 years without being offered a flat. Lee Tat-fong, is one of those waiting. The 63-year-old is hoping she and her two grandchildren can get out of the cubicle apartment they share in their Wan Chai neighborhood, but she has no idea how long it will take. Lee, who suffers from diabetes and back problems, takes care of Amy, 9, and Steven, 13, because their father has disappeared and their mother — her daughter — can't get a permit to come to Hong Kong from mainland China. An uncle occasionally lends a hand. The three live in a 50-square-foot room, one of seven created by subdividing an existing apartment. A bunk bed takes up half the space, a cabinet most of the rest, leaving barely enough room to stand up in. The room is jammed with their possessions: plastic bags filled with clothes, an electric fan, Amy's stuffed animals, cooking utensils. "There's too little space here. We can barely breathe," said Lee, who shares the bottom bunk with her grandson. They share the communal kitchen and two toilets with the other residents. Welfare pays their HK$3,500 monthly rent and the three get another HK$6,000 for living expenses but the money is never enough, especially with two growing children to feed. Lee said the two often wanted to have McDonalds because they were still hungry after dinner, which on a recent night was meager portions of rice, vegetables and meat. The struggle to raise her two grandkids in such conditions was wearing her out. "It's exhausting," she said. "Sometimes I get so pent up with anger, and I cry but no one sees because I hide away."

Yep Robert. Yet another example of your wanting to belive in Carl's living nightmare.

Tulare CA
 
 
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An example of government ran stuff, instead of the free market: HONG KONG (AP) -- For many of the richest people in Hong Kong, one of Asia's wealthiest cities, home is a mansion with an expansive view from the heights of Victoria Peak. For some of the poorest, like Leung Cho-yin, home is a metal cage. The 67-year-old former butcher pays 1,300 Hong Kong dollars ($167) a month for one of about a dozen wire mesh cages resembling rabbit hutches crammed into a dilapidated apartment in a gritty, working-class West Kowloon neighborhood. The cages, stacked on top of each other, measure 1.5 square meters (16 square feet). To keep bedbugs away, Leung and his roommates put thin pads, bamboo mats, even old linoleum on their cages' wooden planks instead of mattresses. "I've been bitten so much I'm used to it," said Leung, rolling up the sleeve of his oversized blue fleece jacket to reveal a red mark on his hand. "There's nothing you can do about it. I've got to live here. I've got to survive," he said as he let out a phlegmy cough. Some 100,000 people in the former British colony live in what's known as inadequate housing, according to the Society for Community Organization, a social welfare group. The category also includes apartments subdivided into tiny cubicles or filled with coffin-sized wood and metal sleeping compartments as well as rooftop shacks. They're a grim counterpoint to the southern Chinese city's renowned material affluence. Forced by skyrocketing housing prices to live in cramped, dirty and unsafe conditions, their plight also highlights one of the biggest headaches facing Hong Kong's unpopular Beijing-backed leader: growing public rage over the city's housing crisis. Leung Chun-ying took office as Hong Kong's chief executive in July pledging to provide more affordable housing in a bid to cool the anger. Home prices rose 23 percent in the first 10 months of 2012 and have doubled since bottoming out in 2008 during the global financial crisis, the International Monetary Fund said in a report last month. Rents have followed a similar trajectory. The soaring costs are putting decent homes out of reach of a large portion of the population while stoking resentment of the government, which controls all land for development, and a coterie of wealthy property developers. Housing costs have been fuelled by easy credit thanks to ultralow interest rates that policymakers can't raise because the currency is pegged to the dollar. Money flooding in from mainland Chinese and foreign investors looking for higher returns has exacerbated the rise. In his inaugural policy speech in January, the chief executive said the inability of the middle class to buy homes posed a threat to social stability and promised to make it a priority to tackle the housing shortage. "Many families have to move into smaller or older flats, or even factory buildings," he said. "Cramped living space in cage homes, cubicle apartments and sub-divided flats has become the reluctant choice for tens of thousands of Hong Kong people," he said, as he unveiled plans to boost supply of public housing in the medium term from its current level of 15,000 apartments a year. His comments mark a distinct shift from predecessor Donald Tsang, who ignored the problem. Legislators and activists, however, slammed Leung for a lack of measures to boost the supply in the short term. Some 210,000 people are on the waiting list for public housing, about double from 2006. About a third of Hong Kong's 7.1 million population lives in public rental flats. When apartments bought with government subsidies are included, the figure rises to nearly half. Anger over housing prices is a common theme in increasingly frequent anti-government protests. Legislator Frederick Fung warns there will be more if the problem can't be solved. He compared the effect on the poor to a lab experiment.

Tulare CA
 
 
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norcal13 I guess I'm slow it took me 23 years to make E-8. I had to make 5 twice so I guess I only have myself to blame

Red Bluff CA
 
 
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Logging They are always looking for people with a strong back and good work ethic. I am also well educated but I do not make my money from that education, I make most of my living logging. Several of the guys on our crew are very uneducated as in no high school diploma. The only referrals they have are from the correctional facility they were in but they know how to work. Starting wage is about $30 an hour and they work ten hour days five and six days a week. To be able to get this job you have to prove you can do it. In this industry there is a trial period where what you do is the only thing that matters. If you work out you will have a job. If you do not perform you will not have a job. They are setting chokers or wielding a forty LB saw all day every day it is all very hard physical work. They are not all huge guys but they are tough and strong. A good sawyer can make a lot more than that starting wage after a couple years on the job. I drive speciality logging heavy equipment, drive it and own what I drive. Equipment operators are usually guys who have worked themselves up the pecking order. They advance by their own hard work, not by running their mouths. I have two other operators running a skidder and a cat. Both started out as new guys without experience a few years ago. In my world it is a man and his saw or equipment, the trees, and the mountain. No unions anywhere to be found. You either do your job and everyone sees it or you do not do your job and and everyone sees it and you are gone.. And the other part. You have to be willing to go to where the work is not sit on your butt and wait for it to come to you. Nobody owes you a job you have to go and find that job and then do that job. I judge no one on what they say they either show up every morning at daylight and do the job or I'll find someone who will. We all have camp trailers we move from job to job or rent a room locally where we are working. We get home on weekends and enjoy time with our families. I usually work about eight months each year and make a pretty damn good living. The money I make has paid for a nice house, good food, and tuition for a private school education for my son. All of this and I've been discharged four different times from the hospital in the last ten years using a walker to get around. No other person has put one red dime into my equipment pr my business. What I didn't know about fixing it and maintaining it I learned when it broke down. It doesn't surprise me a bit that you hear this from the right and moderates. We do not believe that anyone owes us anything. We think that getting a job and making a living is up to us. You go where you gotta go and do what you gotta do. On the mountain logging. Talk is not cheap, it is worthless.

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Robert: This is my kind of stand up guy. A security guard that is handeling business. Kevin James, move over, a new mall cop's in town.

Darien Long, a shopping mall security guard, has received a rush of donations after posting a video that showed him applying a Taser to an abusive woman outside an Atlanta mall.

After telling the woman to leave for disorderly conduct, Long is heard on the video saying, “Back it up,” and shows her the Taser. The woman begins hitting him on the head anyway, and Long uses the Taser on the woman, who drops to the ground near the children she is with, who appear understandably upset.

The shocking video, filmed last May, went viral, and a crowdsourced campaign to raise money to get the mall guard even better equipment has already brought in some $20,000.

Long, who has been the property manager for a year, told local Atlanta news station WSB-TV, “I feel like the Taser and the camera are the two most effective tools that I have. Do what you're supposed to do, or you get what's coming to you.”

The local TV network also reports that the woman shown in the video was charged with criminal trespass, contributing to the delinquency of a minor and simple battery.

Long records every confrontation, and many of the videos he has posted to YouTube have gone viral. One shows him chasing drug dealers out of the mall, pointing the Taser and using another effective tool: a clipboard where he records the incident. Amazingly, the drug dealers back down and walk away.

The mall guard said, “What you do is clean up the neighborhood so other businesses can come in and downtown Atlanta can prosper news. yahoo. com/blogs/lookout/funds-raised-mall-cop-whose-video-makes-him-

Tulare CA
 
 
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You cam make it just as fast as you prove yourself, sometimes in a war zone even faster depending on the needs of the unit, and your ability to handle yourself. It is the same in both officer and enlisted ranks.

Keller TX
 
 
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I'm not going to 'quote' anyone here because we all have a similar 'hero' story about ourselves; work your way up in ______, become successful, make lots of money....

My father once warned me "Do NOT judge everyone on YOUR merits. You are smarter, work harder and have a firmer internal compass than most of the people you will meet. Never forget that there are leaders and followers, decide to BE a leader, but never forget that a leader needs followers that are fair and firm in their leadership. Together, both leaders AND followers, you cannot be beat."

What we as leaders have forgotten, a 'leader' being those of us that HAVE excelled and done well with forging our own way, is that without followers, the 99% if you will, our 'leadership' is meaningless and soon moot.

There are vastly more people in any society that simply want to work hard, save as much as they can, see their kids go farther than they...and all they want is a fair shake. To share in the massive 'productivity' they helped create with better wages, benefits and conditions as time goes on. These people do NOT deserve the scorn heaped upon them when times are bad and their employers, entities they THOUGHT had some 'loyalty' to their employees, simply dump them to the side and then run as fast as possible from their previously agreed upon contracts.

My company is not huge. My payroll fluctuates between 2 and 12 guys, depending on season. I am very careful whom I hire in that even with my 'seasonal' people, I pick for the long term. It has proved itself repeatedly when even my seasonal employees are the same ones again and again. I treat my people right so they WANT to work for me and do a better job than they would for someone that does not do as well for them. In the end I save a lot of money because I have nearly zero turnover and a ready supply of additional men that will leave a current job to come back to work for me when I ask them to. Oh yeah, I did this all without a huge education either. So what?

The POINT here is that if we realize that most are NOT built to be entrepreneurs or self employed and that MOST people NEED to work for someone else. The PROBLEM is that our society has reached a point FAR different from when we were 'coming up' and could do all of this on gumption and savvy. Now you DO need a degree. Seriously. Employers, swamped with applicants, simply attach 'degree needed' to any and all positions as a way to stem the tide some. Go and TRY to get a job as a construction foreman without a 4 year degree today. Ain't gunna happen no matter how many buildings you built in your life.

Can you still do it? Sure you can. It's a SHITLOAD less likely than when we were in our twenties though. Today you MUST have an education in SOMETHING if you have any real hope of making a living beyond simple survival today.

Anyone that denies this is either blind, uninformed or outright full of shit.

East Fishkill NY
 
 
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TOPIC: Meaningful work without education Prove it!