Lifecycle of a Democracy: Swingers Discussion 2118891071

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Lifecycle of a Democracy: Swingers Discussion 2118891071

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TOPIC: Lifecycle of a Democracy

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User Details are only visible to members.	Lqqk: We have that here in hazleton. Years ago (70s) with a beryllium factory. (now torn down) and metal factories in general. Many of which hire part time only or simply offer no benefits and are sighted by the EPA/OCEA all the time. The judges make all the fines totaling to 50,000,000 into a single 50,000 fine. My father saw this first hand when he was the president of his union. The reason for the OCEA inspection? Two deaths in three months by the same machine. Even while locked out and tagged, it would randomly kick on. Then there were things like blocked fire escapes. Spilled oils and chemicals. Demands that workers lift loads a hundred pounds alone and without jacks and these were the simple stuff. Before the company was bought out by southern business owners, the factory had twenty years of no accidents... But after the owners retired and their kids chose a different path, the owners sold the family business to southern business men who first tried to break the union, then tried to fire every union employee, when that failed they simply closed the plant saying it wasn't profitable... It's equipment was newer than every other factory that company had, the building built specifically to do the task asked of it... Their other factories were still using 1920s tech in factories retrofitted to do the job. (one was a ship dock retrofitted to do metal working.) Needless to say, the company didn't go out of business because of the union, it went out of business because the owners wanted to abuse northern workers like the southern workers enjoy being abused. What was a middle class job, became a poverty job in less than 8 years. My father the union (president in the factory) didn't demand massive raises or benefits... Instead he urged moderate raises or to remain stagnate and fought demands from management that the the workers give up medical, bonuses and overtime whole accepting demands to work six days a week for less pay. Because management didn't have total control, they closed what was a successful factory down. In negotiations the management reps refused to provide the books as to expenses and when required by aberration, the management pay and benefits were redacted. So the management always negotiated on bad faith. FYI. My father was against striking, he had a family to feed and in his time as union president, he never had to strike to keep what they had. (instead he the higher union representatives and the unions lawyers ended up on first name bases.)
Hazle Township PA			Username hidden (5112 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"It's been said before but it's worth repeating. Only in America can a bunch of idiots fight for the rights of the rich instead of the workers..." We are talking about the Non Union worker who just lost their job because the Union didn't want to take a cut. 50% discrepancy between Union and Non Union workers in wages greedy can be described at both ends of the equation.
Saint Louis MO			Username hidden (12205 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"I would have to disagree about the unions killing their jobs being a good thing, simply to spite the Romney like businessmen. In the long run, such out of control actions would be just as bad as union killing employers." I agree, it works both ways and it is not a question of spite. I would rather see a company go out of business and it's employees out looking for work then to be humiliated at the expense of owners with more money then they could spend in ten lifetimes. It's also about more then just money. For example what if employees have to work under conditions that could lead to premature death or disability. I personally would rather see that company have to fold shop. Yes, those employees would be out of a job, but, at least alive and well to look for another.
Cape Coral FL			Username hidden (4080 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"no retail store or fast food joint I have ever worked for or been involved with has evey give benefits to their non management employees. but then again maybe that was just the south, I don't know. maybe the rest of the country was doing something different. My point is they are all screaming that Oboma is making them do this, LIERS, they have always done it." I have friends who worked for Target and Publics for many years down here in Florida, in non management positions and have benefits. Fast food IMO is different as many jobs are filled by High School kids saving up for their first car. I believe Publics was at one time considered one of the top five companies to work for. I will say that your point is well taken and that point is exactly the reason Unions came to be in the first place. As to the rest of the country doing something different, they did up North. It was called Unions.
Cape Coral FL			Username hidden (4080 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Lqqk: I would have to disagree about the unions killing their jobs being a good thing, simply to spite the Romney like businessmen. In the long run, such out of control actions would be just as bad as union killing employers. All I can say is that if the right want to gen he government out of their lives... They best pick up their big boy pants and start providing for the people. Failure to do so will result in the government taking over more areas of the economy and taxing everyone for it. I would rather have an employer healthcare plan than Obamacare, if the employer provided care provided more than empty promises and never ending threats of loosing the benefits. I would rather not rely upon welfare, but if the private employer won't provide... Than they must be taxed so the government can provide a subsadized work force. If the businessman doesn't start acting like big boys/girls... The government will treat the businessman like a child and reduce their freedoms. Personally I must have had abusive parents growing up, because by now my parents would have paddled my ass red for the actions of these here businessmen.
Hazle Township PA			Username hidden (5112 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"What democracies/republics does he discuss? " Well, the first paragraph of the OP is generally attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler. He studied Greece and Rome as well as others. What democracies have you studied? What sources do you have that dispute the premise?
Pittsburgh PA			Username hidden (14772 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	LQQKN, What your talking about is nothing new, I was doing that 30yrs ago. At biglots we never gave any part time workers more than 10 to 15 hours a week in 3 to 4 hour shifts.Thats because by law we couldn't schedule less thn a 3hr shift and if we gave them more than 4 they got a 15min "free" break and the company didn't want to pay them to sit on their ass for 15mins. BENEFITS what the hell are those, no retail store or fast food joint I have ever worked for or been involved with has evey give benifits to their non management employees. but then again maybe that was just the south, I don't know. maybe the rest of the country was doing something different. My point is they are all screaming that Oboma is making them do this, LIERS, they have always done it.
Dallas TX			Username hidden (2225 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"Your unions did wonders with Hostess. Guess 18,500 jobs is small enough to fail, aka destroyed by union demands." I agree with you, they did. They made the Romney/Bain's richer. That was their (Romney/Bain) plan from the get go, but you will never see that. Honestly I'm glad they (Unions) destroyed the company, under those condition's. If Unions destroyed more companies there would be no Romney/Bain's left.
Cape Coral FL			Username hidden (4080 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	"So don't let these service businesses blow smoke up your ass, they arn't cutting anyones hours from full time to part time, you can't cut hours that you were never giving out." It's not a question of cutting hours, but dividing those hours. Hiring two people @ twenty hours=no benifits or lunch breaks as oposed to hiring one person @ fourty hours and benifits. Besides you are only picking out one small part of the entire problem, it's more then just benifits.
Cape Coral FL			Username hidden (4080 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	LQQKNFORU Walmart has always done business like that, That's what I find so silly about all these business telling everyone they are going to have to go to part time workes, they have always used a majority of low waged part time workers. How many full time pizzia deliver boys or burger flippers,stock boys ,ect do people think exist. Does anyone think that dumb chick who can't speak english, taking your order at Mickey d's is working full time, she's doing good to pull 15 hours a week. Hell when i woked for big lots 8yrs ago , we only had 5 hourly full time employees ofout of 30 to 35 employees. So don't let these service businesses blow smoke up your ass, they arn't cutting anyones hours from full time to part time, you can't cut hours that you were never giving out.
Dallas TX			Username hidden (2225 post)

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TOPIC: Lifecycle of a Democracy