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Israel Palestinian conflict : Swingers Discussion 20010210131
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TOPIC: Israel Palestinian conflict
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Maritimes..of COURSE they have European and Middle eastern DNA now...since it has been centuries since the wandered in from The Asian Steppe and procreated with the natives....this however, changes nothing.

In the 90 percentile, modern day Jew have NO intrinsic legacy to Palestine, or even eastern Europe for that matter. AS for the REAL decedents of the Hebrews of the old testament, they have had a homeland for 6000 years...in the upper Nile valley

Rosemont IL
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Robert...the idea that if the Palestinians saw the error in their ways and just bent over and spread their cheeks for likud, they could have a free independent state is nonsense...Likud's charter states 'NO independent Palestinian state west of the Jordan" No occupied nation has even broken free from their oppressors by playing nice....with the possible exception of Canada

Rosemont IL
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Party:

It is called outdated ideals and being trapped inside their own bubble which created the messes we are in today.

"1. You present a false dichotomy, in that you claim there can be no solution save a total Palestinian surrender "

Only when the Palestinians realize that victory is impossible and that radical Islam will only lead to more war and violence, will they open up to meaningful discussions.

Their unwillingness to surrender comes from their radical Islam and the idea that if they do not surrender, that they will be punished by their God for not being Islamic enough.

History also states that the most lasting peace only comes when the weaker side no longer desires war in any fashion. This only happens when the idea of war is so horrific that total and complete destruction is the end result of continued conflict.

"2. You contend that If the Palestinians DO surrender, Israel will suddenly return the occupied territories and create a two state solution NEITHER is the case"

I never said that Israel will suddenly do anything. I said that Israel ought not do anything at all until the Palestinians choose peace and peace can only come when they (the Palestinians) wake up to the fact that war with Israel will result in one thing. The complete destruction of their way of life....

Unless war is their way of life, in which case they are no longer a people worth saving or to be concerned with for they have chosen death to be the only meaningful thing about them.

Hazle Township PA
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I do not see what PP writes, thankfully.

Based on what MT's post, it appears that PP is trying to link the Jewish DNA to the Khazars. An old, and not particularly reliable attempt to delegitimize the Jewish claim to the land. Almost every Israel detractor that I ever met and/or debated with has used this tactic, straight out of the palestinian narrative. Facts, as explained by MT's post are against him of course.

"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."

-Charles Krauthammer

Rumson NJ
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PP writes:

"The European Jews were and are indeed Turkik wanderers....This is not my "contention" this is historical, anthropological, and genetic fact."

Response:

Arthur Koestler advanced this theory in 1976 and it relied almost exclusively on selective historical sources that demonstrated little more than the fact that Khazak-Turk Jews existed.

Based on linguistic evidence, in 1993 Paul Wexler advanced the theory, while limiting it to the Jews of Northern Europe. (Wexler himself considered Koestler's evidence scanty and totally unreliable.)

Genetic studies in 2000's demonstrated that European Jews are more closely related to their middle east and Sephardic brethren and that the proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations. The genetics also show that no more than 12% of European Jews have genetic markers that might be traceable to a single or a few ancient men Khazar descent.

PP fails to recognize that Jews in diaspora mixed with, influenced and were influenced by peoples of all colors and flavors around the world. The evidence does indeed reflect the possibility of some Khazak-Turk influence on the Jewish people of Europe, but in the face of the genetic evidence, only a misinformed observer would make the leap to the overbroad conclusion that PP presents here.

Demonstrating once again that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Amherst Canada
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Robert...Some of the smartest things I have ever heard have come from those of your generation, and some of the most idiotic things imaginable have come from members of the so called "greatest" generation. My criticism of your views on this topic is that 1. You present a false dichotomy, in that you claim there can be no solution save a total Palestinian surrender 2. You contend that If the Palestinians DO surrender, Israel will suddenly return the occupied territories and create a two state solution NEITHER is the case

Rosemont IL
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So far, no one has an answer to my previous query.

I guess, I'm not the only confused one.

Rumson NJ
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*On these forums, the right mistakes me for a communist or socialist. The left simply ignores what I say without engaging at all*

You wont find a single post from me, calling you a communist, or a socialist. I agree with some of what you say, disagree with a lot of what you say, and attribute it to your youth ;).

You'll grow out of it. You'll see.

Rumson NJ
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8inch:

I argue with everyone, because I don't align with either side.

My politics are ignored by both the left and right here because you all are a perfect example of the problems plaguing this nation.

Both sides on these forums throw insults all day long. Rarely have I seen anything which amounts to meaningful discussions. When someone with different ideas than yours appear, you bit into them like they are the enemy, insulting them too.

Maybe it is you that need to learn some objectivity? Take what is said, write it down and study the politics behind what is said.

Generally I agree with you, outdoors, and the general left. This is why I am a center leaning left. But I lean left, not dunking head deep left.

On these forums, the right mistakes me for a communist or socialist. The left simply ignores what I say without engaging at all.

On other sites, the left think that I am a Neoconservative. And Neoconservatives there ignore my post. Why? Because those forums are left and far left. Here the forums are right and far right. Yet I am actually center.

Now you can ignore someone 20 to 40 years younger, you can even block me if you want... But I exist, I live in the world you handed me and my generation and we will not be spoken down to by those who have fucked this nation up and refuse to work to fix it.

Hazle Township PA
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Robert, you are making an ass of yourself. You comment in almost each and every topic. Outside of the military, have you traveled outside of your hometown much?

You clog up almost every topic to the point that ppl can't develop conversations. You comment on everyone's comment, like this last example.

Why not take a few days break and let the forums return to normal for a bit?

You constantly argue with ppl 20-40 yrs your senior. You don't think that other ppl have experienced and lived thru a lot of what you babble about?

Milwaukee WI
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TOPIC: Israel Palestinian conflict