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FORUMS General Discussions Politics Is the Pledge a prayer
TOPIC: Is the Pledge a prayer
Created by: Nkenswing
Original Starting post for this thread:
A Pennsylvania lawmaker is coming under fire after refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance at a recent house committee meeting.

Democratic Rep. Babette Josephs said the words "under God" in the Pledge make it a prayer, and she refused to say it.

When Republican Chairman Darryl Metcalfe, who represents Butler, asked Josephs to lead the pledge, she refused.

As everyone was standing to say the pledge, Josephs said, "Based on my First Amendment rights and based on the fact that I really think it's a prayer, I don't pray in public."

After the incident, Metcalfe told reporters, "I think it is shocking that any elected official would not pledge allegiance to the flag. It's a person's right to not say the pledge, but I don't believe anybody should be in elected office that holds that position, and I think a majority of Americans wouldn't elect somebody if they held that position."

Josephs, who represents the Philadelphia area, is retiring in a few days.

So is it a prayer in your opinions?

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"Never thought of it that way, but pledging allegiance to a flag does seem to be pretty goofy."

"Flag' was synonymous with 'country' in the days that our pledge was written (still is sometimes) so in effect you are saying "I pledge....to the country..."

East Fishkill NY
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The strange pledges made to an unknown deity are the attempts by religious demagogues to require unquestioning obedience from their sheeple.

Treasure Is FL
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God Bless You.

Imperial MO
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Lucky:

Your god doesn't cause positive changes on earth. Every written discription of your god causing any change has been brought with death and destruction. From banishing adam and eve for being weak to a Demi-god of your gods creation to nuking two cities because they choose not to worship him correctly.

If your god exist, it is the greatest coward for sending it's son born to a humans body, to be tortured and killed in one if the worst manners for the time. Equally bad, your god is the greatest war criminal in all time. Not only creating evil itself, but to destroy man kind for turning away from worshiping a being that can only prove its existance through pain and suffering.

If that is where you gain your strength to carry on... Than you worship a dictator... I'll as soon meet annihilation than to worship such a god. That is independence and drawing true strength... To be willing to stand on your own against a force which claims to have created all things and tell it that it is wrong and a criminal.

Real strength comes from building up all men, by rising them out if the mud, not knocking them down because they aren't as strong as you. That is why republicans such as the tea party are weak. The momen their faith fails them... They are broken.

My faith in humanity can it be broken because time and time again when dictators become too oppressive, their regimes fall. Man frees his fellow man.

My faith in humanity cannot be weaken, because it doesn't require absolutes of existance and it doesn't draw strength from threats of raptures. It draws strengths from the fact that for all of human history, we have fought and died to free our fellow man.

From oppression by one occupier to oppression by our fellow countrymen. We, not angels from heaven, not your god, but flesh and blood men dropping from the skies to liberate nations and topple regimes.

Do we make mistakes? Sure we do... But we endevor to be better each time. We create more perfect systems of justice and social orders. Do we fall shirt if the mark? Yes, but we aren stopped from making small improvements which lead to greater improvements. It might not be done fast, not everyone can be the leader in making such improvements... No one can lead all the time.

So I'll put my faith in humanity before some mythical being that like godzilla, can only bring death and destruction with each visit. At the least we know we're limited beings endevoring to improve ourselves... Your god has no such excuse for its threats and promises of death.

Hazle Township PA
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Last time I checked it was not a crime to say or not say the pledge. Nobody is forcing anyone to say anything. So it seems the hoopla is all about what your neighbor is saying. That is just downright silly...

Sanford NC
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Insanity results in the recitation of pulp-fiction credos to a non-existent deity.

Treasure Is FL
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I don't remember saying anything even remotely negative about democracy. I stand by what I did say:

"People who are as full of certitude in their own inerrancy as they are lacking in tolerance for dissenting views, probably will never be happy with democracy."

Belle Chasse LA
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exactly. lol

So who are we willing to piss off?

Why does it bother you to maybe acknowledge that the 'vast majority' of Americans have a belief in some 'god'?

I'd be more than willing to say 'one nation, full of idiots' and I don't believe I am one.

Pittsburgh PA
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A 'pledge' to an unknown deity is evidence of insanity.

Treasure Is FL
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Those preachers of righteousness who believe in the 'pledge' as part of the early-American history of the Revolution really believe in the 'fleecing of the sheep' as their primary false Christian-Republic-con doctrine of oil exploration in America.

Treasure Is FL
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TOPIC: Is the Pledge a prayer