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TOPIC: Guns Guns and More Guns
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I have been around guns my entire life. I made my living with guns in the military. Never have I been taught to shoot not to kill. The mozambique drills are a perfect example... "two in the chest one in the head". I would never take a weapon from the leather unless i was prepared for the person at the dangerous end to die.

Lake Worth FL
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BS "the ideal is not to kill." Training at every law enforcement academy is shoot to kill. There is no such thing as shooting to injure. Yes as far as testimony in court it is "I used deadly force to stop the threat". Note DEADLY FORCE, if any officer or civilian states that they did not intend to kill in testimony they would find them selfs sued or prosecuted. You do not draw unless you are willing and justified to use deadly force. And never, ever do you pull a trigger unless you are willing to kill your target.

Most police officers that get sued from shootings are from suspects that lived. Even when justified to shoot it has been argued that the injury caused from being shot, caused permanent disability and suffering. Most of these suits are thrown out. But the attorneys still try.

Case in point, suspect in an emergency room takes a nurse hostage with a knife, after she had called police because of suspicious behavior. The officer when he arrived shot the man in the groin, because it was a open shot. He had every intention to place a second shot to the suspects head when it was clear. But the suspect immediately dropped the knife and raised his hands. After a 2 month hospital stay and extensive surgery, the suspect got a shyster attorney and sued in federal court for violation of his civil rights because he claimed the officer had no right to shoot him, because he did not shoot to kill.

Sanford NC
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Tbr, I'm not sure where you obtained your info, so I would never doubt that you did read it somewhere. It does sound as though it may be info with a "spin" though. The way I read it, was the gunman killed himself AFTER being put down with shots from the security guard. That was respectable, at least he saved the taxpayers the money for the legal battles. Anybody who has been trained in the defensive use of a handgun knows that the "ideal" is not to kill, but to neutralize a threat. While it may happen that the nutjob meets his maker during said neutralization, it's not the goal. The prescribed defense is for the victim who's under attack, to fire at at aimpoint thats COM (center of mass) and keep firing until said threat is disabled and no longer a threat. Since COM is usually the chest of an attacker, it doesn't usually work in their favor. The way I look at it, flawed as it may be, is that the guard did indeed end the threat of a violent attack, and likely saved many lives. It wasn't her position to then disarm the man to prevent him from killing himself. Most likely, he intended to do that anyway, after he had taken a bunch of innocent lives. She only hurried him along.

"At this point, Jeanne Assam, a church member volunteering as a church security guard, stopped Murray by shooting him several times with her personally-owned concealed weapon. After Murray was shot down, he killed himself with a self-inflicted shotgun wound."

Reno NV
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It seems that all the crowing about the security guard at the church in Colorado maybe a bit misplaced.

It seems that the shooter had already shot himself in the head before she showed up.

His death was ruled a suicide by the coroner.

Her bullets were no more effective than target practice.

Fullerton CA
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I'll stick with the .40 s&w for auto loaders. I have a 3" chief special in .357. The best gun in a fight is hte one you have and is functional.

Lake Worth FL
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That's the biggest load of horse shit I ever heard Angel. You don't do anything that you don't want to do. So now you are trying to say that you are some kind of robot, who will kill indiscriminately because you were trained to do so? Don't put your moral failings on anyone but yourself. Their are millions of vetreans trained to kill, and all of them have the freedom to choose whether or not they would use those skills in the civilian world. Most choose not to, others do so for personal reasons. I think your thinking is well within the minority of soldiers. Most would not kill innocent men, women, and children. And they are taught to disobey orders telling them to do so. I refuse to believe that your mind is that weak now, even if it may have been in the past. I call Bullshit, cause I give you a bit more credit than that.

Arlington TX
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And this is where we'll differ. As an 18 y.o. I wanted to kill, still do sometimes- but I don't. NOT because I'm afraid of prison, like Detestin' would believe to sleep at night. And not because I'm afraid of my "god". The reason I don't do it because through reason and logic I've CONCLUDED that I am NOT the ultimate will in the universe and that we as a species CAN ACCOMPLISH MORE TOGETHER than any one of us could alone, costs included. So I made up my mind to swallow a bit of my pride and pursue a bit of understanding of "that guy's" life instead. Fuck the "Law"- I say equality under the universe.

Chicago IL
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I was offered what seemed like some VERY lucrative scholarships after the recruiters saw my ASVAB scores. For some reason, or not, I had an all too common attack of conscience: NOT "oh my poor victims", or "Oh the American military- industrial machine is blah, blah, blah"- though I DO believe such issues are important. No- I realized what I was capable of if given the training, resources, and license. Luckily my brain is bigger (slightly) then my balls. What Detestin' refuses to realize and Scotty, et al, only touch on before dabbing eyes with patriotism is tjhis: some who fight, fight only to fight. Getting gay- bashed DAILY until I said "enough"; and almost killed some poor bastard did it to me. Bad- ass forever. Gun, knife (ALWAYS in my pocket- unless I'm on a plane.) or my bare fucking hands. Stay rude, stay rebel.

Chicago IL
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BTW, Destin: be you the male or female, or both- "for better or for worse" : He's right. Fuck you.

Chicago IL
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You are right. and know it. They know it too. Let them stew in their own self- loathing (the ultimate destination of the righteous) Don't play the pundit's (Critic's? Lawyer's.) game.

Times like this I LOVE being a bisexual man. There is so much, so often bull-shit most men feel they have to wave around like a flag that they've confused it with real life. After you've made yourself REALLY vulnerable to a few (and used a few {voluntarily} vulnerable men) the best of us learn to separate the "wheat from the chaff", IMHO. Men (people really- ladies too; but I'm on a rant) who've rarely stepped outside their comfort- zone don't really know how to deal with an un- ashamed muthafucka. That's usually why they so vehemently defend said comfort- zone.

IMHO.

Your thoughts?

Chicago IL
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