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TOPIC: Guns_Guns_and_More_Guns
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4play:

The last thing I fear is your posts. If you show me where I've been wrong or made mistakes, I'll be glad to admit it. I love critical thinking and good, strong, wise criticism. I'd rather be challenged than have someone agree with me, as I learn more from a good challenge.

You are nothing to fear. You are tiresome. You make assertions with no specific, no proof to back them up. I'm just asking you to engage in substantial debate in a forum rather than taken unsupported pot shots.

Monrovia CA
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4playlovers:

No evidence. No specifics. You get the F today for an unsupported argument. I have not changed the topic at all. I've asked you to stay on topic. I've challenged you to point out the posts where I've been proved wrong.

You've come up with less than moose squat.

Monrovia CA
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"4playlovers:

I'm saying I want you to show me where I've been proving wrong.

In my many posts, I've made a mistake or two. Please cite them if you want."

Sapp,

I think you must ask yourself with a self admission that you have just stated in this post, what does he have to prove?

Your need for me to prove you are wrong, in fact, is based on fear – fear that you are not meeting the expectations of those in the forums. This brings me to wondering why I should prove that in 3,800+ posts that you were proven wrong on any of your posts.

lets be intellectually honest, there are two respectable strategies to winning a debate:

1. revealing errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts 2. revealing errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic

You have shown numerous posts that state logic as facts and then use a False premise to back up your story. You are entitled to their own opinion in any and every post but you are not entitled to your own facts or logic. Those have to be proven and using many of the sources you use makes me question the motives of your debate! When you use your own personal credentials you can not back them up, understandably because of privacy but that makes your posts unqualified to be expert opinion!

The real truth of why you asked me to prove my statement is that you were loosing this debate and needed to change the subject. You see you can be wrong and not admit it but by all means you certainly have been wrong on more than a few posts, if not on fact, on logic alone!

Willis TX
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Azqt & Jack,

You are not going to bring Sapp from the edges of insanity to reason. He is a lost cause. You might as well add him to your ignore list and block him. He is a troll, a race baiter and an elitist. Nothing is factual unless he says so or unless Obama, Burns and Levine says so. He believes that Obama is a champion of the Second Amendment and is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Let him sink on his Titanic he has deserved it. I just find it unfortunate that "if" he is a professor, then he is taking everyone that took his classes down with him.

Spencer TN
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Yes, Obama supports various forms of gun control. He is also defends the 2nd amendment and argues for the right to bear arms as a constitutional right. For instance, he supported the Heller decision that overturned the DC ban on handguns.

Nowhere has he voted to overturn the 2nd amendment, and nowhere has he spoken out against it.

Monrovia CA
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4Play:

I'm saying show me where I have been proven wrong, and I'll review it. You say stuff about me being proved wrong, and I have no idea what you are talking about. Support your point with something specific.

Monrovia CA
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More on Obama and his anti gun record

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry. FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban. FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting. FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership. FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities. FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense. FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration. FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case. FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws. FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.” FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America. FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them. FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military. FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines. FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping. FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods. FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers. FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions. FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns. FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment. FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.

USSC does not endorse candidates, but is providing this as educational material.

#2 06-17-2008, 08:44 PM Rht4162

Mentone AL
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Sapp, In the brief senate career of your hero, here is his record: Barack Obama's Gun-Related Votes The U.S. Senate Debated: Obama Voted: Supporting concealed carry for citizens10 Anti-gun Banning many common semi-automatic firearms11 Anti-gun Disallowing self-defense in towns where guns are banned12 Anti-gun Imposing one handgun a month restrictions13 Anti-gun Requiring lock up your safety trigger locks14 Anti-gun Protecting gun dealers from frivolous lawsuits15 Anti-gun Outlawing gun confiscations during a national emergency16 Pro-gun Squelching the free speech rights of gun owners17 Anti-gun Restricting the interstate sales of firearms18 Anti-gun Repealing the gun ban in Washington, DC19 Anti-gun

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Mentone AL
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Obama Goon Squad Prosecutor Speaks-- Defends Tactics

St. Louis Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce-- Threatening the people of Missouri and proud of it.

Destin FL
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4playlovers:

I'm saying I want you to show me where I've been proving wrong.

In my many posts, I've made a mistake or two. Please cite them if you want.

But I'm curious to see you back up your claim about where I've been proven wrong in my posts in the SLS.

Monrovia CA
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