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TOPIC: Guns Guns and More Guns
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The local restrictions on guns have not been tested in the courts.

The local restrictions on voting have been tested in the courts and found unconstitutional.

So your original argument is nonsensical.

But you knew that and were trying to stir up shit.

As usual, your manufactured outrage falls flat...

Fullerton CA
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Jack, if you want to see restrictions such as you propose on voting, you get together with some of your like-minded friends and get a law passed.

Then if other people don't like the law, they will go to court to have it declared unconstitutional. Then it won't be law anymore.

Since you don't remember civics class, let me remind you that that is the way we do it in this country.

All of the restrictions that you propose on voting have been law at one time or another. Somebody didn't like them and took them to the Supreme Court, who judged them unconstitutional. So they can't be law anymore.

I can't help it that people against gun control have not had the balls to take a gun control law before the Supreme Court in the past 219 years that the Supreme Court has been functioning.

If you want to whine to someone, whine to them.

You don't do anything about it, it is your own damn fault.

Fullerton CA
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"Obama has most liberal voting record in the US Senate" Twice supported ban on use of handguns

Destin FL
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Debjack:

"We cannot accept irresponsible voting."

What do you mean by "irresponsible voting"? Can you give us some examples?

What do you want to do about irresponsible voting?

Should we keep from voting anyone who believes lies such as perpetrated by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and that are being used against Obama such as that he is Muslim, an Arab, a criminal, a socialist?

Amuse me (or scare me): Tell me what you mean by "irresponsible voting."

Los Angeles CA
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Sweetbutt:

You say, "The country was won by the gun." But just as it's people who cause crime, not guns, I'd say it's people who caused our freedom or who won it, not guns. Guns were just one of the means used to defeat the British, just as guns are one of the means used to commit crime.

I'm fine with the 2nd Amendment and the right of people to bear arms.

I'm just trying to understand why people cling to guns. I don't think it's out of bitterness or economic frustration or whatever Obama clumsily said that time in his infamous remarks in a San Francisco speech...where he was giving some empathy to the economic situation of people in rural areas in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

So it seems that one answer is that people love their guns because guns represent and protect freedom.

I do think it is a way over-the-top fear to think that Obama or other liberals like me want to take away people's guns and their right to bear arms.

I'm curious to hear if people feel so strongly about guns for any other reason than just their association with freedom.

Alas, as I've pointed out, guns have been used to defend slavery as well as freedom and to do some nasty stuff to Native Americans, so I'm a little hesitant to glorify guns as a sign and symbol and agent just of freedom.

Los Angeles CA
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Did you miss the part about the right of the people?

Spencer TN
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Sweetbutt:

Alas, in the history of the USA, guns have also been used to defend slavery as well as freedom and to perpetrate acts of ethnic cleansing and genocide against American Indians.

Any study of the American Revolution will indicate the crucial significance of words and oratory in defending American liberty and winning the American Revolution. Nothing was more instrumental in leading up to the Declaration of Independence than Thomas Paine's "Common Sense." The war was started and won with more than guns.

So are you saying people cling to guns so they can defend American freedom?

I'm fine with our military having guns and arms for that purpose. Indeed, we spend 20% of our budget on weapons and military for that security. Do we need citizens to own guns to defend American freedom in case of war or invasion?

Los Angeles CA
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So the police aren't duty-bound to protect us, and they can't be expected to protect us even if they want to. Does that mean that they won't protect us if they have the opportunity?

One of the leading cases on this point dates way back into the 1950s. A certain Ms. Riss was being harassed by a former boyfriend, in a familiar pattern of increasingly violent threats. She went to the police for help many times, but was always rebuffed. Desperate because she could not get police protection, she applied for a gun permit, but was refused that as well. On the eve of her engagement party she and her mother went to the police one last time pleading for protection against what they were certain was a serious and dangerous threat. And one last time the police refused. As she was leaving the party, her former boyfriend threw acid in her face, blinding and permanently disfiguring her.

Her case against the City of New York for failing to protect her was, not surprisingly, unsuccessful. The lone dissenting justice of New York's high court wrote in his opinion: "What makes the City's position [denying any obligation to protect the woman] particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law [she] did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus, by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her."

Instances of police refusing to protect someone in grave danger, who is urgently requesting help, are becoming disturbingly more common. In 1988, Lisa Bianco's violently abusive husband was finally in jail for beating and kidnapping her, after having victimized her for years. Ms. Bianco was somewhat comforted by the facts that he was supposedly serving a seven-year sentence, and she had been promised by the authorities that she'd be notified well in advance of his release. Nevertheless, after being in only a short time, he was temporarily released on an eight-hour pass, and she wasn't notified. He went directly to her house and, in front of their 6- and 10- year old daughters, beat Lisa Bianco to death.

In 1989, in a suburb of Los Angeles, Maria Navarro called the L. A. County Sheriff's 911 emergency line asking for help. It was her birthday and there was a party at her house, but her estranged husband, against whom she had had a restraining order, said he was coming over to kill her. She believed him, but got no sympathy from the 911 dispatcher, who said: "What do you want us to do lady, send a car to sit outside your house?" Less than half an hour after Maria hung up in frustration, one of her guests called the same 911 line and informed the dispatcher that the husband was there and had already killed Maria and one other guest. Before the cops arrived, he had killed another.

Spencer TN
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Check: Warren vs the District of Columbia This is a prime example of why gun control is wrong. The police have no obligation to protect the individual. Just read what happened to these women.

Spencer TN
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"So instead of taking the word of Barack Obama or Freud, I'm curious to learn from posters in this thread:

Why do you cling to guns? ***** There is a piece of paper called the Constitution. In the Second Amendment it gived the people the RIGHT to keep (own) and bear (carry) arms.

If you love them, why? ***** It is not a point of loving them. It is idea that a group of Patriots had. Freedom. Freedom has a price. Freedom was won with wood, iron, lead and gunpowder. It was not won with books, speeches or giving in to the enemy through discussion.

Why would a candidate's position on guns be a possible litmus test for your vote? ***** This country was won by the gun. It's laws are protected by those that carry one. I am not only speaking of the military and the police. The right to keep and bear arms is a right given to all citizens who are protected by the Constitution. The Second Amendment protects all other rights. Look at Britain and Australia. Since guns have been taken away crime has risen. Look at Washington D.C.. They have banned handguns and they say if you have a working long gun in your home it is illegal. If you buy a long gun at a gun store it is illegal to transport it home. Yet they have the highest crime in the country. The crime rate in D.C. has risen over 200 percent since the gun ban has been established. Kennesaw GA has a city ordinance where every house (that by law isavailable) has to own a firearm and ammunition. There have been three homicides since 1982 and only one was with a gun. If a candidate wants to take the right to keep and bear arms from the citizens, then those citizens will be defenseless. Criminals don't care about what is legal or illegal. Criminals like a safe work area. If they are going to rob you they want to know that you are unarmed. People have a right to defend themselves. With deadly force if need be. If the Second Amendment is taken away which amendment will be next?

I loved shooting a gun when I was a kid (.22 and .410 mostly), and my father took me out hunting several times and shooting skeet when I was growing up, and I did enjoy it very much. ***** Good for you. I'm glad your father taught you to shoot. What happened to change your mind about guns?

But I'd like to hear more of you explain what joys, satisfactions, desires, needs, etc. come from owning guns and why people become, if you will, obsessed with them......and paranoid about gun control. ***** I don't think anyone is "paranoid" about gun control. Many of us are concerned that our rights are being strained and are coming to a point where they will be taken away at some point. Handguns and long guns are a part of this country's history and foundation.

Spencer TN
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TOPIC: Guns Guns and More Guns