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Guns Guns and More Guns : Swingers Discussion 8571010161
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TOPIC: Guns Guns and More Guns
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"I gave you an excerpt from Heller "

and I gave you one.

Pittsburgh PA
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"As far as domestic operations of the federal military forces it is illegal under several provisions passed during the civil war reconstruction except under very specific circumstances."

One of those circumstances is domestic insurrection. Geez, I hope this discussion is purely academic, even though there have been a few actual instances of it happening over the years.

Belle Chasse LA
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"I was simply showing you that YOUR Scalia quote was senseless."

Huh? You asked me who constituted the founding-era militia, I gave you an excerpt from Heller describing it as a subset of the population (white males of military age), which description is consistent with the Militia Act. It was NOT everyone, as you seem to believe.

I do agree that the Heller decision was all over the place. How could it not be and still reach that result? If fancy dancing of the linguistic variety is needed, Nino clearly is the dood to do it.

Belle Chasse LA
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" quoted the first Militia Act from 1792: ............"

I believe that's the SECOND Militia Act from 1792..........which is AFTER the Second Amendment was written.

Pittsburgh PA
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Google TSA raids. They have done thousands of them over the years outside airports and involve pretty much every Government set of of random letter agencies you can think of. All under tsa command.

As far as domestic operations of the federal military forces it is illegal under several provisions passed during the civil war reconstruction except under very specific circumstances. Also every officer in the Army are (at least used to be) trained that you can and will be held accountable for following unlawful orders. This was a direct result of the German war crimes trials after WW2 if you want to look that up.

If I got orders to start dragging people out in the street in a US town I would not do it. At least I would like to think I would have enough moral fortitude not to.

Lexington KY
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lol

I was simply showing you that YOUR Scalia quote was senseless. I love Scalia, but he's a bit all over the map in that opinion.

There were hundreds of boys under the age of 18 who fought in the Revolutionary war. Children as young as 12 served in non-combat roles.

Pittsburgh PA
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"But as we have said, the conception of the militia at the time of the Second Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens capable of military service, " ----Scalia."

Irony/hypocrisy alert. The guy who is always accusing others of spin, soundbites, and taking things out of context, has once again neglected to look in his mirror. 

To advance his preposterous assertion that the "militia" referenced in the 2nd Amendment included all persons (even women and blacks), Perf plucks out this one sentence and ignores everything around it. In Heller, Scalia had already said the militia was a limited "subset" of all the people "who were male, able bodied, and within a certain age range." He noted later that the militia specifically excluded free blacks. He quoted the first Militia Act from 1792: 

 “each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective states, resident therein, who is or shall be of the age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia.” 

It's pretty obvious that the phrase  Perf quoted about "all citizens capable of military service" was merely Scalia's shorthand reference to his more detailed definition of "militia" elsewhere in the opinion. 

Is this idiot really trying to tell us that the founding-era militia referenced in 2A was populated to any real extent by women and blacks? And am I the only one who gets a good chuckle when he lectures someone else about spin? Now, let's sit back and see what he knows about the Rule of Holes. 

Belle Chasse LA
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"All you gun control freaks should join hands and get the constitution amended. It is illegal to ban weapons of ANY kind until that happens"

I'm not exactly a gun control freak, and neither are the Justices on the Supreme Court. But they and I disagree with your analysis. 

Even the landmark Heller case (holding that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual right to possess handguns in the home for lawful purposes like self defense) specifically acknowledged that there is no constitutional right to have "ANY" kind of weapon. And the decision expressly stated that the Court was not interfering with longstanding restrictions on who and where gun rights could be limited. 

Belle Chasse LA
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Toomuch:

First the TSA? Are you sure that you are not talking about ICE, ATF, FBI? The TSA doesn't raid anything, they really are little more than glorified train and airport security guards. TSA agents do not even have arresting powers.

Second, don't count me with the ban the weapons crowd. I have no intent to ban your weapons, or even try to limit your ammunition capacity. Go forth, arm yourselves to the teeth, the moment you shoot at my government or its agents... I will back any government retaliation against you. If your family dies along side you, it is only because you picked a fight, starting a war and then chose to hide behind your women and children.

Third, if you wear the uniform, your loyalties are to the duly elected government. Not some back hill terrorist group claiming to be freedom fighters. The Taliban, al quada and most terrorist groups of the world, claim to be freedom fighters too, often overthrowing duly elected governments, to obtain that freedom.

Hazle Township PA
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No Robert but as a former member of the military and one of the most elite units in the world (7th SFG, look it up). I can tell you if I had gotten orders to roll through an USA town it wouldn't be happening. At least during my time it wouldn't have.

However those shotguns and hunting rifles would work pretty well on TSA goons. If it got to the point where our military operates against domestic targets then hopefully enough of that same military would join the opposition and take their tanks and guns with them.

That isn't even my point. My entire point is that the constitution as it was written and intended allows every citizen the right to bear arms. All you gun control freaks should join hands and get the constitution amended. It is illegal to ban weapons of ANY kind until that happens.

Of course it is also illegal for the president to order American citizens assassinated or the TSA to raid bus stations (or even airports) but that happens as well.

Lexington KY
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TOPIC: Guns Guns and More Guns