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TOPIC: Guns Guns and More Guns
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Florida is a cool state. They are a stellar example of how relaxing gun ownership and enacting castle doctrine type laws, have served to reduce violent crime into the double digits. I'm not one to generally get involved with internet arguments, as I place far more importance on addressing my own shortcomings in life. Gun control however is an issue that I'm exceptionally passionate about. Though I still may choose to become scarce when the chest thumping, name calling, and ridiculous call outs for a duel start, it doesn't change my beliefs, only ceases to be worth anymore of my time. I've been around the block enough times to know that the more lethal threat is not the wingnut standing waving his machete while screaming obcenities at the crowd, it's the old timer sitting quietly by, clutching the well worn peacemaker under his vest as he bides his time. Now before any whack job decides to pin a political label on me, I'm a registered Independent that chooses to vote both with heart and mind. As for "American" and "Patriot", despite all the country's problems, those are labels I choose to wear proudly still. For most of you gentlemen, it's a pleasure to share an intelligent thread with you all.

Reno NV
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In SC the law is very clear also. If an intruder steps foot in your home you have the right to blow him away. That's the way it should be...

Goose Creek SC
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fortunately for me. The law in florida is very clear. You have NO obligation to flee your home. A toe across the door threshold gets a tag on it.

Infact the use of deadly force is athorized in FL if you "feel your life is in danger" doesn't actually have to be in your home.

Me personally, i've mellowed. I'm more of the type that wouldn't harm a soul... but if you don't want trouble it's best to pass me on by.

Lake Worth FL
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Scotty, I agree with you in theory. The fact is though, unless you live in one of the states that has enacted Castle Doctrine laws, allowing you to stand your ground even when given the option of retreat, a shooting results in an arrest. Justifiable or not, is for the courts to determine. It's absolutely better to be judged by "12 than carried by 6", but being aware of the outcome of a justifiable shooting ahead of time, allows one the chance to control his response in a situation that might otherwise be controlled by "fight or flight" and adrenaline. Even police officers are bound by laws and dept. regulations to stop fire when a threat has been neutralized, regardless of their intent to "shoot to kill". IMHO, the time to consider your options is before they're put into play, thereby allowing your instincts and any training to take over. With or without the help of the NRA, I'd be facing a costly legal battle if I justifiably defended myself with a firearm, and if after the double thump to the assailants chest, I put 8 more slugs into his ribcage "just in case". Besides as a lifelong hunter and "gun nut", I pride myself on 1 shot kills, so I'd likely be aiming COH (center of head) anyway ;)

Reno NV
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If I am drawn into a situation were I feel the need to use deadly force I will not be thinking of the legal repurcussions at that time. My Glock has a 15rnd magazine, If forced into a firefight, i will squeeze the trigger (taking my time in a hurry) and empty said 15 rnds into COM. will it be deadly force... yes at least 10 of the 15 are going to enter the pricks body. chances are he will cease to be amoung the living. My lawyer and the NRA can deal with the legal asspect of it. but i'll be alive and said prick will not be. Rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

Lake Worth FL
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I suppose it's difficult to argue intelligently for stricter gun control laws when presented with the cold hard facts that Guns Save Lives and stricter gun laws ONLY affect the law abiding public.

Reno NV
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Dancing no problem I understand what you meant, but I don't want to give the liberals an ounce of ammunition(forgive the pun) to try to attack our position. Every day that a police officer puts his tools on, he saves lives. There is no limit to the amount of times a armed robber has been thwarted by seeing a open carry citizen. We have made great strides in overturning opinions about firearms but there is a long way ahead. There is more to it than just the right to bear arms. There is the right to use those arms to protect without repercussions, for citizens and police officers. North Carolina has open carry and concealed permits, but still has that stupid retreat clause. That's why it's so important to keep Hillary out of the White House she had already made her intentions known on disarming us all. Not sure of Obama but it looks like he swings that way too. And to be honest I even have my doubts about Rudi and our right to bear arms. Damn it Condi where are you?? sheeeeshhh Please put your hat in!!!!!!

Sanford NC
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It's a perfectly researchable fact, that for every instance where a firearm is used to commit a crime, that a legally owned firearm is used to prevent a crime several times over. I won't quote the exact statistic, as I'm too fucking lazy to go searching for it right now. What seems odd to me though, is that though firearms are used to prevent many crimes on any given day, very few of these instances are ever to be seen in the media.

Reno NV
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FJ, I agree with you for the most part. You'll also note I didn't suggest that a victim undergoing a violent attack "shoot to maim" or "cripple" their attacker. Double tap center of mass is the prescribed method of dealing with a lethal force engagement by every defensive handgun course that I'm aware of. I'm completely aware that "shoot to neutralize" is largely a psychological excersize, and if warranted to pull a firearm in self defense, is designed to over ride a persons aversion to killing a man. As you stated, "neutralizing a threat" is an ideal that comes more into play in the courtroom than it does in a firefight, but in the real world it's almost as important that we're able to protect ourselves in the legal aftermath of a justifiable shooting, that we were at the point we felt the need to pull the firearm to begin with. While I personally am in favor of the mozambique drill, double tap to the chest and one in the forehead, it's unlikely that would hold up well in court if the first two 180 grain slugs disarmed the "bad guy" and thereby neutralized the threat. Aside from that, I agree with you 100%. If you pull a weapon you'd better be intent on destroying whatever you point it at. I think most serious gun owners that have received any kind of training, whether it be IDPA or followers of Massad Ayoobs Lethal Force Institute teachings are well aware that "shoot to neutralize" and "shoot to kill", more often is the same thing. On a personal level, I agree with the 21' rule as well, if an assailant comes within that distance carrying a weapon, with the intent to do my lady harm, it makes no difference to me whether they carry a baseball bat, tire iron or knife, they've already posed a "lethal threat" and would be dealt with accordingly.

Reno NV
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Perfect, the media and the left are always trying to minimize the fact that law abiding citizens packing, concealed or open save lives. I hope somebody steps forward and gives her a reward. I remember when NRA used reward citizens for using a firearm to defend themselves or others. I sure we are not going to hear Matt Lauer give any praises on the today show. Just think if during the Columbine Massacre if some of the teachers had been armed. Same with the VT campus.

Sanford NC
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