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Debjack:

What you see is anti-gun, I see as pro-gun control. Scalia is also pro-control. One can be pro-gun control without being anti-gun. Obama is pro- 2nd Amendment. No matter how hard you try or what you cite, you can't make Obama into someone opposed to the 2nd Amendment. He's neve said a word about overturning the 2nd amendment, and he has said much in support of the 2nd Amendment. Yet, you, in your crazed-wacko way, keep trying to insist Obama is anti 2nd Amendment.

It will be curious to see what Obama does about gun control and the 2nd amendment after he's elected. I'm sure he will continue to express support for the 2nd Amendment, and Dick Cheney will still be able to buy a gun that could be used in a way that shoots someone in the face.

Would you want to go on a hunting trip with Dick Cheney?

Monrovia CA
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Sapp, How am I "distorting" his view? I have only posted what he has said, voted on, and proposed. I have posted directly from ontheissues and factcheck. So where have I distorted anything?

In your opinion is banning all semi-automatic weaopns (shorguns, rifles and handguns) reasonable restriction?

In your opinion is banning CCW permits reasonable? Nationwide.

In your opinion is telling someone that they cannot defend themselves and their family reasonable?

In your opinion is it reasonable to ban all handguns?

Spencer TN
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Sweetbutt & AZQT:

We can debate what is a reasonable form of gun control, and I see Obama in favor of reasonable forms of gun control.

We can also debate what is a wacko opposition to gun control, and I see both of you committed to wacko anti-gun control positions.

You both continually distort, in wacko ways, Obama's positions on the 2nd Amendment.

Monrovia CA
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...The outcry of the Illinois public was heard all the way to the state capitol. As a result, the Illinois House and Senate passed legislation in May 2004 to protect citizens who use handguns in self-defense in their homes or businesses despite local handgun bans. The House accepted the DeMar self-defense bill by a vote of 86-25 and the Senate moved the legislation on a 38-20 vote. And here lies the seminal moment for State Senator Barack Obama. When Obama turned thumbs down on the bill, he voted against the most basic element of the Second Amendment—the right of defense of self and family—the reason that millions of Americans own firearms. When the governor vetoed the bill, Obama once again voted against a citizen’s right to self-defense. Despite his vote, the veto override passed the Senate and the House by overwhelming majorities, thereby enacting this bill into law. Now, fast forward to today’s slippery oratory of U.S. Sen. Barack Obama just three years from being an unknown state senator—now morphed by the media into a spellbinding U.S. Senator seeking to be President of the United States. Using words like “protecting sportsmen,” Obama is now saying that he believes in the Second Amendment ... but with almost universal exceptions, all of which he lists under the heading of “common sense gun safety laws.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like endorsing the D.C. gun ban, which outlaws armed self-defense in the home—now being challenged before the U.S. Supreme Court. Obama, who as President would be in the position to nominate justices to that high court, has declared that the D.C. ban doesn’t violate the Second Amendment. “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? In a “1998 National Political Awareness Test,” he pledged to support a “Ban [on] the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons”—meaning most handguns and many rifles and shotguns that you and I own. “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like demanding that the federal government preempt the 40 hard-won state laws creating Right-to-Carry. Here’s how the Chicago Tribune put it: “Obama said he opposed allowing ordinary citizens to carry concealed weapons and that a federal law banning concealed carried weapons except for law enforcement is needed.” “Common sense gun safety” and the Second Amendment? Like the draconian proposals funded to the tune of $18,000,000 by the rabidly anti-gun Joyce Foundation while Obama was an activist member of its board of directors. Obama’s alleged support of the Second Amendment is utterly cynical and false. Barack Obama is not for the right to keep and bear arms; he’s out to destroy it.

Spencer TN
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FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns." Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to: a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes. b. ban assault weapons? Yes. c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

Source: FactCheck. org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008 ______________________________________________________________

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent. When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."

It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007

______________________________________________________________

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions Principles that Obama supports on gun issues: Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons. Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms. Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms. Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Spencer TN
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"and even the most conservative judge--Justice Scalia--affirms the constitutionality of gun control."

Wrong! Judge Scalia affirms the Constitutionality of REASONABLE forms of gun control. The bans in D.C. and Chicago are not reasonable. The types of gun control that Obama has introduced, voted for and stated he supports is not reasonable. To ban CCW is not reasonable. To ban ALL TYPES of semi-automatic weapons is not reasonable. Telling someone he can only own 5 guns is not reasonable. National licensing is not reasonable. Telling someone they have to wait 30 days before they can take their gun home after purchasing it is not reasonable. Banning the manufacture, transportation and sale of all handguns is not reasonable. And your precious factcheck says YES he did say this.

Saying I don't think we can get that done is not the same as saying I have no intentions to and i am in favor of the 2A. It says he doesn't have the votes to pull it off.

Spencer TN
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AZQT & Destin et al.

Support for gun control does not make one anti-2nd amendment, anymore than support for limits on free speech (e.g., no shouting fire in a crowded theater) makes on anti-1st amendment.

Give me one sentence or one speech where Obama has expressed an interest in overturning or abolishing the 2nd Amendment and then you can call him anti-2nd Amendment.

I hear him time and again recognizing a right to bear arms and giving support to the 2nd Amendment.

Alas, it's a shame you guys don't have the nuance and subtlety to recognize, as does Justice Scalia, that one can be for gun control and also for the 2nd amendment.

You can say that Obama goes too far in his support for gun control, but I see no legitimacy in calling him anti-2nd amendment, but gun wackos will continue to do this.

Monrovia CA
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obviously sappy cannot read so posting this again for it:

While a state senator, Obama voted for legislation that would ban and forcibly confiscate nearly every shotgun, target rifle and hunting rifle in the state. Obama also voted for bills that would ration the number of firearms a law-abiding citizen could own, yet give a pass to the violent thugs who roam our streets. And, inexplicably, Obama voted four times against legislation that would allow citizens to use firearms to defend their homes and families.

Destin FL
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Sweetbutt:

The interpretation of the Constitution is subject to debate. In a democracy, we are continually debating constitutional issues, including the legitimacy of gun control and limits put on free speech.

Obama believes in more limitation of the right to bear arms than you do, but that does not make him anti Second Amendment. It just makes him in more favor of stricter forms of gun control than you desire. Gun control is constitutional, and even the most conservative judge--Justice Scalia--affirms the constitutionality of gun control.

Obama does not deny the right to bear arms, and he has affirmed time and again his support for the 2nd Amendment, and he's on record for supporting the Supreme Court decision in Heller. Someone who is anti-2nd amendment would not voice support for the decision in Heller.

It's fair to say that Obama has supported some very strict forms of gun control in places such as Chicago, and he sees a definite need for gun control, but he's no threat to overturn the 2nd amendment and has never advocated that.....and to say that he is anti-2nd Amendment is nonsense and fear-mongering and stupidity.

It reveals a mind that is blunt and dull, with no appreciation of nuance and subtlety--a mind that can't see shades of gray, nor understand even the difference between black and white, and, it seems, can only see white.

Monrovia CA
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The extreme gun control measures that Obama has voted for and or believes in IS anti-gun and anti-2A. If you are for banning every single semi-automatic weapon (shotgun, handgun and rifle) then you are against the most popular form of weaopn and the most popuar form of self defense, therefore are against the 2A according to D.C. vs Heller.

Obama said he did not think he could get it done. That didn't mean he would not try. It doesn't mean he wouldn't think about it. Remember Feinstein said if she could have gotten 51 votes she would ban them all. Obama is the same way.

Spencer TN
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TOPIC: Guns Guns and More Guns
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