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FORUMS General Discussions Politics Disagreements on Fast and Furious negotiations
TOPIC: Disagreements on Fast and Furious negotiations
Created by: vacpl4fun1962
Original Starting post for this thread:
Disagreements on Fast and Furious negotiations By FREDERIC J. FROMMER | Associated Press –

Attorney General Eric Holder speaks in New Orleans at a news conference called to address the bungled gun trafficking program known …more WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department and a congressional committee disagree on the pace of their talks to settle a lawsuit over congressional efforts to get records related to Operation Fast and Furious, a bungled gun-tracking operation. In a joint filing Friday night, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee told the judge in the case that a settlement offer it received from the Justice Department this week was a "grave disappointment" and that a settlement is not possible. "The parties are very, very far apart," lawyers for the GOP-led committee wrote. "Indeed, they are not even conceptually on the same page. After nearly four months of negotiating in good faith, the committee reluctantly has concluded — principally as a result of the department's settlement document — that the attorney general is not serious about settlement." The committee added that it didn't think court-ordered mediation would help. President Barack Obama has invoked executive privilege and Attorney General Eric Holder has been found in contempt of the House for refusing to turn over records that might explain what led the Justice Department to reverse course, after initially denying to Congress that federal agents had used a controversial tactic called gun-walking in the failed law enforcement operation. The department has already turned over 7,600 pages of documents on the operation itself. The continuing dispute is over documents describing how the department responded to the congressional investigation of the operation. In the same filing Friday, the Justice Department said it disagreed with the committee's characterization of the settlement negotiations and that a settlement is still possible. Without getting into specifics, the department said it "provided a meaningful offer to the committee to produce documents directly responsive to the committee's identified outstanding interests." The department added that mediation by a judge would be helpful. "Mediation would provide the parties a forum within which to frankly and confidentially present their respective positions before a neutral third party, who could then offer assistance on how to bridge the differences remaining between the parties," the department wrote. In a January court filing, the Justice Department had reported progress in settlement talks, prompting U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson to postpone a hearing that had been scheduled for the following week. That hearing is scheduled to take place next month. Since that filing, Holder told ABC News that the contempt voted didn't bother him. "But I have to tell you that for me to really be affected by what happened, I'd have to have respect for the people who voted in that way," Holder said in the interview last month. "And I didn't, so it didn't have that huge an impact on me." In a footnote in Friday's filing, the committee wrote that "recent public statements by the attorney general also suggest that he is not interested in compromise," citing the ABC News interview. Fast and Furious was a flawed gun-tracking investigation focused on Phoenix-area gun shops by the Justice Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Agents lost track of about 1,400 guns, and two guns in Operation Fast and Furious were found on the U.S. side of the border at the scene of a shooting in which U.S. border agent Brian Terry was killed.

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Vabeach. Not angry in the least. As I said, it is my wish that we could all be a little less naive and reverse PC and that racists would man up and own their convictions.

Rosemont IL
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Well, I guess you can logically infer that if I suspect half of white Americans of being racist, that half of white Americans' comments about blacks may have racist motivations behind them.

However, you and I can still be part of the "other half" that can enjoy non-racist opinions. Actually, anyone can, if they are determined and persistent, and exercise some insight.

When I "suspect" someone's motives, I'm just being skeptical that they're being clear and honest. Very rarely is a person actually aware of his own motivations. People are just very complex systems of reflexes, after all.

Flat Rock NC
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That's your argument? White people disagree with a black person, you don't understand why, so therefore they are racist?

I really thought you were coming back to the "lets talk reasonably about things" side. If you Party Ghost 8inch and NK want to play this way, have at it. I'm not interested.

Winter Garden FL
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I'll add that I don't see racism as equivalent to "evil". It's a defect, a shortcoming, a handicap. It's lack of imagination and a logical short-circuit. It's like any irrational belief that one happens to be stuck with.

Flat Rock NC
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Groundless and endless complaints about the Prez, his family, or members of his administration who happen to be *of color* should always be suspected of racist motives, when roughly half of White America is racist.

Sometimes, no alternate motive can be found. I have tried really, really hard in here and elsewhere, to discern an actual reason for complaint, and I have repeatedly come up empty. Nada. Zilch.

Since racists WILL complain, based on race -- that's the definition, in effect -- there's bound to be endless and groundless complaints based on race. Where do we see these complaints? Look no further!

Flat Rock NC
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Yeah, posting an AP story makes you a racist.

AP.... hmmm... that must be code for *something*.

Enjoy your angry life.

Winter Garden FL
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I don't declare racism for any criticism of the president. I only declare racism when it clearly IS racism or when there is no other logical explanation. One of the downsides of the rise of minority rights in America is that many racists lack the stones to own their racism. Instead they hide behind the "who me" and " you played the race card" BS. At least with an overt racist you know someone has the balls to stick to their convictions. This fig whistle and code speak, and "have a nice day" racism is pathetic

Rosemont IL
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I'm not denying that racism isn't widespread, a part of politics, or present in people on here.

However, I see responding to any criticism of the President (or anyone) with an automatic charge of racism is a sad deflection. It instantly changes the topic and puts the critic in a position of having to defend themselves against a charge of being a racist. It's a tool of a coward. Calling people racist is a sure-fire way to make sure you don't ever have to actually debate anything and can keep your opponents tripping over themselves to prove they aren't evil.

Winter Garden FL
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VB, maybe you aren't replying to me, but I haven't seen anyone suggesting "everyone" is racist.

If you dispute than "many are racist", are you claiming that very few are? That no one in the forum is? That it's really a non-issue in current politics?

That would be a startling assertion. Kind of like claiming there is no hunger, no poverty, no growing income disparity, etc. Assumptions perhaps convenient to some simplified social model, but hardly believable.

Flat Rock NC
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I see the whole "just keep calling everyone racist" thing has stuck. Awesome. Now this is a thread about racism.

Isn't there some kind of "I have no arguments so I'm just going to call you a racist" syndrome?

Winter Garden FL
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TOPIC: Disagreements on Fast and Furious negotiations