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Conservative Swingers sorry I just don't get it : Swingers Discussion 21594510441
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TOPIC: Conservative Swingers sorry I just don't get it
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"The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D. 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue."

Pittsburgh PA
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"The South Carolina declaration of causes for secession makes clear that the north's election of a President who was dedicated to ending slavery was its most immediate reason for leaving the union."

It does not. Show me where Lincoln was dedicated to ending slavery???? Even PP admits that Lincoln had an 'epiphany' on slavery near the end of the war.

The SC declaration states it's cause for secession was the Federal Gov't not enforcing the Constitution, or the Compact.

Pittsburgh PA
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"Yes. He was elected."

That's your answer to what he said??? LOLOLOL

Pittsburgh PA
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"Can you think of anything Lincoln said or did regarding slavery that would be cause for South Carolina to leave the Union?"

Yes. He was elected.

The South Carolina declaration of causes for secession makes clear that the north's election of a President who was dedicated to ending slavery was its most immediate reason for leaving the union.

The tariffs, the constitutional issues, the cultural issues, the states rights issues, the admission of new states issues all were different manifestations of the slavery issue.

Of course the war was about much more than just slavery. But only parrots think this means that the war was not primarily about slavery.

Outdoors and 8inch make persuasive arguments about the stars and bars. Narrow minded parrots strain to distinguish the arguments, and in so doing reveal their intellectual inferiority.

Amherst Canada
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Ok Robert if you say so. I will still honor my family name. I am not ashamed of any of them.

Berryville VA
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Vacp:

"People need to remember that the US had not existed as a country long before the war started. We as a nation was going through growing pains.. There was still a lot on influence from the war we fought to become the US."

Yet we were a nation at the start of the civil war... A nation which included the states which tried to assert themselves over a federal government and the will of the nation as a whole.

These states did this at the point of a gun and threatened the very existence of the nation. These states chose treason, that in and of itself should make any man with family ties to the confederacy fell a pinch of shame.

"Tariff of 1828 "

Cry me a river... We have a court and we have a government.... Your job as a citizen is to use these two means to stop what you think is an injustice... NOT YOUR GUNS. Not when you have the power of the vote.

Given that the south made its money off the back of slaves, and the people not holding slaves didn't support freeing the slaves.... I will not show nor have any sympathy what so ever for slave states.

Bottom line is. The instatution of slavery destroy's any message you had other than slavery and any right to complaint of mistreatment should at all times be ignored.

If you support in any way a nation or the people who fought for a nation that supports slavery... You aren't a defender of freedom, you are a defender of those who support slavery.

Hazle Township PA
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cpl

Can you think of anything Lincoln said or did regarding slavery that would be cause for South Carolina to leave the Union.

Even during the war, Lincoln had plenty of opportunity to free slaves in the border states but never did.

Pittsburgh PA
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The Civil War was very much about slavery, just as it was about taxes and a bunch of other political issues. Prior to the Civil War, southern states were dominating federal politics thanks to the 3/5 compromise that increased their populations dramatically and afforded them around 15-20 more seats in the HoR than they would have had without counting the slave population. This led to southern states also dominating the Presidency, Speaker of the House and the Supreme Court. When Lincoln was elected, Southern states were afraid that he would abolish slavery and the southern wealth would be depleted. Few southerners owned slaves, but even the poor, non-slave owning southerners supported slavery for the simple fact that it kept them from being on the very bottom of the social and economical totem pole.

But lets not pretend that the North was opening it's arms to blacks. Most northerners would have preferred to send them back to Africa rather than accept them as a neighbor and equal. I don't consider this to be "racist" though. It was simply an uneducated, ignorant mindset that was common with the times. We know better today, at least most of us do.

When I see a person flying the "Stars and Bars" I don't automatically assume that person is a racist who would like to en-slave people of color. Truth is, I've known hundreds and hundreds of men and women from the South throughout my life who proudly display the Confederate flag and very few of them would be considered racist. And I've probably known just as many northerners, if not more, who are racist as well. But I do think they are a bit misguided in the notion that they are supporting/honoring their ancestry. That ancestry symbolizes division and the desire to separate from this country. I can't help but laugh at the irony of people who have Confederate tattoos on their arm or flags on their front door and their trucks who say they're proud to be an American. If you're so proud then why are you decorating yourself, your house and your truck with the flag that represented a movement to leave the Union? That's what I find kind of offensive about it. If you're "Proud to be an American" then show it by flying the National Ensign, not the flag of a separatist movement.

T

Danville PA
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Per. You are right. They go by what they have been told. I guess growing up were I did with all the Civil War sites around me I became interested in it. I have spent many years of my life learning about it. I don't claim to be an expert on the war just informed. Hell it is hard to find any historians who can agree on the issue.

Berryville VA
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Most people have little clue about the Nullification Crisis and the Tariff of Abominations. They'd rather just parrot the propaganda that the Civil War was to protect slavery.

Pittsburgh PA
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TOPIC: Conservative Swingers sorry I just don't get it