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Commanding a wage, deserving investments : Swingers Discussion 209815
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TOPIC: Commanding a wage, deserving investments
Created by: Robert_Hil
Original Starting post for this thread:
I find it kinda funny that businessmen expect employees to be able to command a wage... Or that your wage should be whatever you can command. Yet expect the government to subsadized their employees wages with safteynets?

If the governmet didn't have our social safteynets, that welfare mom with four kids wouldn't be buying tv's from Walmart. So sound business models would reduce the number of tv's being bought by Walmart. As such the electronics department becomes downsized and more employees become unemployed.

This when spread across multiple businesses creates a cascading effect if more unemployed who can command less of a wage and spend less in the stores... Which results in yet another wave of unemployment.

So how is it unfair to say that if a business must be subsadized by the government with tax write offs.. These businesses should earn these write offs by having no employees on the government dime?

After all, a worker receiving welfare, yet working full time is a subsadized worker... Thus the company is saving money by not paying that employee as much.

would continued write offs not be double dipping if your company is already being given aid at the payroll side of things?

I say that if the employee must command the wage they earn... Then business must earn the write offs they command.

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Sav:

"The result of your desire would be the immediate elimination of full time employees and full time positions. A perfect solution for people who live in their parents basement I suppose. That would leave far more time for writing space fantasies . Mrs Sav"

Then the system would have to adjust to the blatant abuse of the system by terminating all write offs. Society can play the greed game too, we can bitch slap business owners by turning further towards socialism and communism and the government providing more and more jobs... stepping in where business has chosen to leave because they can't abuse the work force.

Want to save capitalism... you are going to have to learn to work for it. Want a socialist or communist future for your kids? Keep up with your greedy activity.

Hazle Township PA
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The result of your desire would be the immediate elimination of full time employees and full time positions. A perfect solution for people who live in their parents basement I suppose. That would leave far more time for writing space fantasies . Mrs Sav

Anniston AL
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Mark:

Ah, but which one of us is the more insane? VA claims to be a capitalist, he claims to want to promote capitalism... Yet he wants to hold onto a system if both personal and corporate socialism and then call this capitalism.

Is this what capitalism has been reduced to? Why should anyone hold any level of respect for such capitalist when they support those with views with which you reduces the public, but advance the business?

Nations are made up of people, the public. Businesses provide a service... The day they need government to keep them in business, is the day they should be considered government employees and not self made businessmen.

While we can not eliniate taxation if companies, namely taxes which are for the safteynet. We can work to reduce these taxes by reducing the need for them and placing the cost if the taxes upon the companies which cost the people rather than benefit the people.

This is why a company seeking a write off should have to earn it by having no employees on the governments dime. (I started by speaking about full time employees, not part time... We continue talking about full time employees.)

This should be how a company commands it's tax write offs, by making it profitable to provide a standard of living which reduces the need for welfare and this it's taxation if the people. As the taxes lower, the business may stand on its own two feet and thus the government would be able ti subsadize less and balanced books can be written.

Hazle Township PA
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In my job I come in contact with schizoid individuals. It is strange having conversations with them because at times they do want to answer you but the voices inside their heads have override and they will yell back at their inside voice before answering back at you. Reading this exchange between Robert and VA is an example of a sane person having a conversation with someone who suffers schizophrenia.

Tulare CA
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Va:

FYI. My teachers lived me. I asked the most questions, challenged the material when it no longer made sense, and pushed programs beyond their designed limits. I even showed my one instructor a neat trick I discovered using a glitch in the program to create texture on what should have been a texture less side if a one directional polygon.

Hazle Township PA
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Va:

I read every word you said. Taxation prevents capitalism from working.

Now here is the catch. Most of those taxes are being paid into what programs? Social safteynets.

So if we want to reduce the taxation of businesses, then we ought to be red ing the need for the safety nets by paying a wage which prevents the worker from qualifying. Once this is done, the need to tax is reduced and you have grounds to argue for the reduction or elimination of taxes.

Over time, you will no longer be gouged by the taxes and thus Dan slowly be let off of the subsadizes which are the write offs. Granted if you are being taxed, but have no employee on the safteynet... You should retain many write offs as you are paying a wage which allows that employee to contribute, rather than being a drain on society.

So I am sure we both aren't listening ti each other... To one extent or another, but the question is which one of us truely wishes for a path to real capitalism... And which one is pushing for more socialism?

Hazle Township PA
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You didn't read a word of that, did you?

I've grown tired of you complaining about the crappy education you got. I'm pretty sure it has much more to do with your refusal to listen, read or learn than any teacher's inability to teach.

Chesapeake VA
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Oh, nice argument... It seems that businesses made themselves prisoners if their own greed.

All if your examples if taxation are a direct result if businesses who forced the public to turn to the government for a social welfare system... A safteynet.

This is called the snake eating its own tail. Obviously no business can exist without the government giving it free money anymore. Capitalism apparently was killed off years ago. Killed off by businessmen who came before you and failed to pay the public a wage which allowed them (the workers) enough to not qualify or at the time demand the saftey net.

I find this amusing, you blame the government for the taxes you must pay, but fail to see why and where the tax money goes. Business owners need to stop crying capitalism, it's a dead horse, it dies in the 1800s when the rich failed to lower their standards of living to that of their employees if they couldn't make a profit.

Hazle Township PA
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OK Robert I was going to let this go until you posted this. I'm going to explain a write-off to you whether you like it or not. If you wish to have people stop laughing at your ignorance on this, read it.

A write-off refers to a reduction of taxable income as recognition of certain expenses required to produce the income.

Example: Robert's Lemonade Stand. Table and driveway provided by family so we'll leave that part out; also assuming the lemonade police do not come around and issue health department violations or operating without a business license.

(Daily) Gross Receipts from sale of lemonade: $500 Cost of lemons, sugar, clean water, pitcher, mixing utensils, cups, ice and other miscellaneous stuff: $400 Net profit: $100

What do you pay taxes on, Robert? $500? Or $100?

If you don't allow "write-offs" you cannot deduct the costs of doing business, namely lemons, sugar, cups etc. So you'd pay taxes on $500 while actually earning only $100.

Since SS/Med taxes (you're self-employed, remember) are 13.3%, so there goes $66.50. Assuming you operate 250 days a year in sunny Hazleton, you'd gross about $125K (but actually earn only $25k). Without putting the time in to calculate it accurately, the Fed/State income tax on this would be about $80 per day.

So you're keeping $100 per day, but then paying ~$145 a day in taxes. Robert's lemonade stand is completely screwed.

Most businesses could not possibly operate this way. A Mom and Pop grocery store runs with around a 2% profit margin, so to make $50,000 a year they would need to gross $2.5 million in sales. If you do not allow them to write off the cost of doing business, how the hell are they going to pay taxes on their $2.5 million in sales when they only have $50,000 left after paying their costs?

Please read and understand. ***PLEASE***

Chesapeake VA
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I find it kinda funny that businessmen expect employees to be able to command a wage... Or that your wage should be whatever you can command. Yet expect the government to subsadized their employees wages with safteynets?

If the governmet didn't have our social safteynets, that welfare mom with four kids wouldn't be buying tv's from Walmart. So sound business models would reduce the number of tv's being bought by Walmart. As such the electronics department becomes downsized and more employees become unemployed.

This when spread across multiple businesses creates a cascading effect if more unemployed who can command less of a wage and spend less in the stores... Which results in yet another wave of unemployment.

So how is it unfair to say that if a business must be subsadized by the government with tax write offs.. These businesses should earn these write offs by having no employees on the government dime?

After all, a worker receiving welfare, yet working full time is a subsadized worker... Thus the company is saving money by not paying that employee as much.

would continued write offs not be double dipping if your company is already being given aid at the payroll side of things?

I say that if the employee must command the wage they earn... Then business must earn the write offs they command.

Hazle Township PA
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(7270 posts)
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TOPIC: Commanding a wage, deserving investments