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TOPIC: Anarchy
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angle,

Please stop being logical. I hate it when i agree with you... i'm convinced the world will come to a halt and we'll all die. It's like 3 times this week. GODDAMN i should play the lotto.

Lake Worth FL
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"Anarchy by its intent and definition.. has no rulers, govt & laws.. If you have any of the 3 you dont have an anarchy.." -------------------------------------------------------- Angel,

The last line above summed it up perfectly and your total post concerning Indian tribes was also well stated and I believe accurate. Anarchy will fail simply because of human nature....the strong will inevitably prey on the weak. Although I believe our Republic has created too many layers and bureaucracies, a government with checks and balances to ensure all people have the OPPORTUNITY to PURSUE happiness is the most noblest goal. I still believe those ideals fit within the frame work of the United States today and that is still why I am a "glass half full" not empty, flag waving patriotic American. Ours problems need to be fixed by working within the system, not from without, which will ultimately bring down this great nation and vision of our founders.

Minden NV
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Sorry everybody. I didn't mean to post twice. I'm verbose enough };-)

Chicago IL
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Hey there Poly, et al; I'm an anarchist and I'd like to take this thread back to it's original premise by posing one example of an anarchist society, why it "failed" and how it could be used as a guide. If one does some BASIC research one can see how most of the Native American tribes on this continent were anarchist collectives that were Highly successful at meeting their members' needs. Food, shelter, medicine, marriage and family, all these (microeconomic) bases were covered- as well as the (macroeconomic) issues of negotiating treaties, commerce, and armed conflict. Sure, Hollywood has us believing in Chiefs who acted like Kings, but that was not the reality for most. As in any society, most of the decisions were made by a group of people recognized and respected for their wisdom in such matters. I'm sure not every person attended every meeting, just the ones they cared about and/ or had expertise in. This is what I believe was referred to earlier as an "ad hoc" committee. These people were not "elected", it wasn't their "job" They had to hunt and gather as much as the next person to survive, and it was in everybodys' self interest to do their part. This style of living is not easy, and not because it's "primitive" It is difficult because it requires a FIERCE loyalty not just to the people around you, but to the world that you live in, and an equally fierce loyalty to yourself. Your freedom isn't a "right" you fight for when it's threatened- it permeates everything you do. It is simply the way you live. I'm of the opinion that this is one of the things that contributed to the Natives demise. Keep in mind the settlers from Europe didn't want to be "free" at first, they wanted to be rich. The ways in which the Natives shared the burdens and the profits prevents anyone person from being really wealthy. Their beliefs were so all encompassing I don't see them able to comprehend the avarice and waste coming their way. None of my relatives are from that time, and I often think "what if" the Natives had just slaughtered Columbus and his men. Our society is built upon the bones of those Natives we almost exterminated, and the millions of African Slaves we imported when the Natives were all dead. Any economist will tell you that money invested, on average, will ALWAYS gain value ahead of inflation. You and I participate in an economic system that is built directly on that first doubloon minted out of Central American gold Columbus and later Cortez stole. Our cars and computers and every little plastic piece of shit made in China exist because of THAT capitol investment. For us to go back to a more organic, sustainable, anarchist way of living would involve A LOT of "trimming of the fat". A lot of people would die. There are differing theories as to how fast, how many, etc. But those who lived. and their descendants, would be a part of a better world.

Chicago IL
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Hey there Poly, et al; I'm an anarchist and I'd like to take this thread back to it's original premise by posing one example of an anarchist society, why it "failed" and how it could be used as a guide. If one does some BASIC research one can see how most of the Native American tribes on this continent were anarchist collectives that were Highly successful at meeting their members' needs. Food, shelter, medicine, marriage and family, all these (microeconomic) bases were covered- as well as the (macroeconomic) issues of negotiating treaties, commerce, and armed conflict. Sure, Hollywood has us believing in Chiefs who acted like Kings, but that was not the reality for most. As in any society, most of the decisions were made by a group of people recognized and respected for their wisdom in such matters. I'm sure not every person attended every meeting, just the ones they cared about and/ or had expertise in. This is what I believe was referred to earlier as an "ad hoc" committee. These people were not "elected", it wasn't their "job" They had to hunt and gather as much as the next person to survive, and it was in everybodys' self interest to do their part. This style of living is not easy, and not because it's "primitive" It is difficult because it requires a FIERCE loyalty not just to the people around you, but to the world that you live in, and an equally fierce loyalty to yourself. Your freedom isn't a "right" you fight for when it's threatened- it permeates everything you do. It is simply the way you live. I'm of the opinion that this is one of the things that contributed to the Natives demise. Keep in mind the settlers from Europe didn't want to be "free" at first, they wanted to be rich. The ways in which the Natives shared the burdens and the profits prevents anyone person from being really wealthy. Their beliefs were so all encompassing I don't see them able to comprehend the avarice and waste coming their way. None of my relatives are from that time, and I often think "what if" the Natives had just slaughtered Columbus and his men. Our society is built upon the bones of those Natives we almost exterminated, and the millions of African Slaves we imported when the Natives were all dead. Any economist will tell you that money invested, on average, will ALWAYS gain value ahead of inflation. You and I participate in an economic system that is built directly on that first doubloon minted out of Central American gold Columbus and later Cortez stole. Our cars and computers and every little plastic piece of shit made in China exist because of THAT capitol investment. For us to go back to a more organic, sustainable, anarchist way of living would involve A LOT of "trimming of the fat". A lot of people would die. There are differing theories as to how fast, how many, etc. But those who lived. and their descendants, would be a part of a better world.

Chicago IL
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Also they are pretty busy when I go.

Imperial MO
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Libraries are not going anywhere....Try going to one... I go to research jobs and to study for the test I take each year for work. Quiet very quiet. I like it there they have a lot of documentaion for Government bids for work as well.

Imperial MO
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I am with Poly and Lucky. Books and libraries are still the best and most accurate way to research. Books should be donated, whether that is to your neighbor, to schools, the needy or sold/given away at a garage sale. Their are many ways to ensure books are shared and not destroyed.

The internet is not policed, as even the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled it's Global reach puts the Internet's lies, slander, and altering of history, books, diaries, manuscripts, peoples comments etc, out of reach of any one government.

Two more cases are now being considered by the U.S. Supreme Court concerning slander and falsehoods (both have to do with Wikepedia). However, over the past few years the Supreme Court has either refused to hear cases involving the internet or ruled against the plaintiff(s) not because the plaintiff was incorrect, wrong in their complaint or not libeled/slandered, but because the U.S. Supreme Court does not believe any one government has jurisdiction. Justice Scalia has written on how the internet and it's global reach has moved faster then society and the rule of law was not prepared for it and now can not keep up.

The internet - an incredible modern day tool, but also the most misused and abused.

Minden NV
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I do like the Mad Max analogy for sure.

Imperial MO
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Books? We have come a long way but books are the life blood of this nation. Although they are all (just about) on the internet. But libraries are a big part of our culture. And one day soon you will find out why we still have them. We could not survive if the internet suddenly CRASHED, a paper trail is a must.

Imperial MO
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TOPIC: Anarchy