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TOPIC: Who is to blame for the current economic problems
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Gee, how did we get here! It started really in 1980's. First, it was determined that Social Security should end, the WWII vet's we dying off and we do not owe the rest of this country such a benefit. So, we passed spending bills for Military goods and but did not provide the taxes to pay for them. We passed other bills for more spending and did not pay for them. The plan was to run our debts up so high that something would have to be cut, you guessed it, Social Security. The second front was to look after our Corporations, so it was decided and passed by congress to allow the off shoring of jobs. Before this law, Corporations could go aboard and manufacture goods and services but they had to stay there. Today, we call it out sourcing, more unemployment and under employment. The third front was to allow illegals to come and work here. How did that happen. We just did not enforce the laws on our books that it is against the federal law to hire anyone not permitted to work here. The law says" you are to call the gov't and not hire them" but the reality was our govt looked the other way. Cheap labor reduced cost everyone benefits, right? The last nail in our coffin was the two wars not paid for(first time in the history of our country to kick the can down the road for a was) and then sending us over the cliff by tax cuts. So, if you want to return us to return to a stable economy and moving forward country for the people and buy the people, we need to fix the above issues now, not later.

New Castle DE
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Truly Sorry Mr. Vegas......

in a mix of words I included "your complaint about taxes and....when you pay no taxes"

that went from a personal response to the common complaint from many people about taxes. I am sure you did not really think i would even begin to know anything about your personal tax situation. i have never even been to Vegas.

As someone in the financial field for 21 years i know taxes intimately well and i can tell you the 30K to 50K range does not pay much, if any, federal tax. Obviously there are many things to determine this but as a whole.....

so....your complaint about taxes is hard to justify when many people in the aforementioned income bracket do not even pay taxes. if they do pay FIT they are likely paying an effective rate between 0 and 10% of total income. (maybe a little higher if they have no kids, spouse, home, etc. but even if they hit 15% which goes to $68,000 their effective rate is considerably lower.)

it is interesting to me to hear people talk about this and i actually look at tax returns so i then get to see what the inconoclastic client really pays.

as for the rest of your post.....i am only talking about taxes and was not making any inference to equality of bonus, pay, denial of coverage, etc.

i could easily agree with you had you said i bored people and made their eyes roll but i am doubting your comment that i offended a bunch of folks.

now back to the business of drinking, laughing, partying and getting naked.

Philadelphia PA
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jin where do you get off on saying I pay little or no taxes? I try to pay as little as possible but there is no way out I pay a lot of taxes.

I only briefly mentioned taxes as a part of income. However, I'm guessing you offended a lot of people when you said people in the $30,000 to $50,000 don't pay taxes! They do pay taxes!

There is the old saying, figures don't lie but liars figure. That's another way of saying there are many ways to tell the story. Yes the wealthy pay more in income taxes than the poor. However, as a percentage of income the 30 to 50 crowd pay far more than those with far greater incomes. We have expensive habits. If we were to take all the expenses we have as a country and divide it up for every man woman and child there is no way the vast majority of people could ever pay their share. Therefore, the wealthy have to pay more or we have to cut out expensive options like war! As far as exemptions the wealthy have far more available to them that the middle class. If your income is all W-2 you are pretty much screwed. If you have a business there are a lot of options. Take Haliburton for example, they were paid Billions by the taxpayers then they move to United Emerites to avoid paying taxes!

This economic collapse was all about Greed and it's going to happen again. We've obviously not learned our lesson. When it does it will be the middle income people who work hard and pay taxes who will be hurt the worst. At some point those people are going to blow. The question is when?

Las Vegas NV
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Looking, I didn't mean to imply that those making $30,000 to $50.000 were the only ones affected by this economy. This economic collapse affected many people from poor to wealthy. The point was how long to do these middle class Republicans sit around watching others use their money make a fortune giving you a tiny percentage. Then when these pyramids fail they expect you, the tax payers, to bail them out? When they get bailed out they use your tax money to pay themselves even bigger bonuses for failure! Even if you are true believe in trickle down thing, you have to at some point be questioning the validity of your beliefs?

When you are fighting with your insurance company because they deny coverage. Do you ever wonder why the CEO needs $24 Million to live on? Seriously why do these people need this much money? I'm guessing most of you have no idea whats in your insurance policies. If you actually read them I think you would be shocked at what's not covered. Wouldn't it work better if they paid their CEO's a little less and paid a few more claims that they should be paying?

You can ignor all of this, but the fact is if we don't get our greed in line with reality we are doomed as a country, it's that simple.

Las Vegas NV
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-Mr and Mrs, when I try to make comments on the political forum the submit button forwards me to a page saying there is an error and they are working on it.

Very weird. I haven't heard of anyone else having a problem... or maybe they can't post at all.

Columbia MD
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sorry, the devil made me do it.

Philadelphia PA
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Good god folks, we're all screwed in the ass no matter how you look at it. Bad loans by the banks, bad decisions by the government,,,yada, yada, yada....leave this crap out of the site and take it else where...

Cypress TX
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now i have to jump in....

i will never admit to either party so this post is not connected to either one. nuff said about politics for what i am about to say.

for the past 8 years all we have heard is that the wealthy got big tax breaks and the little guy got the shaft.

i know mr vegas you did not really say all that but you did mention the big breaks for the wealthy and the 30-50 k guy watches in vain.

to that end i offer the point that many of the 30-50K crowd no longer pays any federal income tax as a result of the tax policies of the previous admin and that of the tax changes from 1986. it is a well known fact that the top 50% of taxpayers accounted for 96% of all tax revenue. in 1986 the bottom 50% accounted for 7% of all tax revenue and in 2006 they accounted for 3%. this is a result of of many more legal escapes from taxes through additional exemptions and credits affecting those in the lowest bracket. (such as child care and edu) i do not have the figure here but many more even qualify for a NET tax liability. 26% of all filers have no tax liability at all. in 2003 there was also a 10% bracket added to the system which reduced the burden for the lower earners as more of their real income dollars would be subject to 1.) exemptions and standard deductions, then 2.) a low 10% tax, then 3.) a 15% expanded bracket.

it is really hard to justify your complaints about tax inequality when you pay little to no tax. the high income earner was reduced from a top rate of 39 to 36 and everyone bitched. at 500,000 they are still paying in excess of 150,000 to the IRS. if you pay nothing how can you bitch that his annual rate saved him 10,000-15,000?? lastly, if it weren't for the workers and teachers this country could not run, period. if it were not for the entrepreneurs and corporations and executives and wealthy people there would be no jobs for everyone else, and there would be no one paying 150,000 per year to the treasury while the single teacher is able to legally able to pay ZERO. if mr. wealthy paid less and trash man paid more i could see the revolt. both groups actually need to recognize the importance of each and stop bitching.

i just had to get that out. sorry for the rant.

Philadelphia PA
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"I'm talking about "average" Americans the people who work hard and make $30,000 to say $50,000 a year."

Why is it that a person who earns in excess in that amount is not affected? This economy effects those who earn over 50k as well as those making 60k, 70k, 100k or more . Just by the simple fact a person makes mre money does not mean they are not affected , do you think prices are just up for those who earn only 30-50k. Contrary to popular beliefs this econoy has affected for those who earn over 200k . Jealousy is what drives this hatred for those who earn so much.

Burlingham NY
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I not implying that greed is limited to conservatives by this question. However, do any of you think that there will become a point in time the conservative base will have had enough?

I'm talking about "average" Americans the people who work hard and make $30,000 to say $50,000 a year. These are the people who have had to make sacrafices in order to survive this economy that was obviously destroyed by the greed of others. They can't take vacations any more and they have to watch how much they spend on food as they are one pay check away from financial disaster. They support the trickle down theory where we give the mega wealthy all our money and then give them huge tax breaks thinking that somewhere along the way the will trickle down to those who are not so wealthy.

They are watching the news today and hearing the Goldman Sachs employees are getting 16 Billion in bonuses and make $500,000 a year. They watched when we bailed out AIG so that they could pay out Millions of dollars in bonuses. Health insurance companies CEO's make 24 Million dolllars a year. The worst part of all of this is that it's not tied to performance. Do you think they will ever get tired of waiting for the trickle to start coming their way?

Mr and Mrs, when I try to make comments on the political forum the submit button forwards me to a page saying there is an error and they are working on it. All other forums work just fine. They have been working on it for weeks now. Not sure why, but honestly not sure it matters.

Las Vegas NV
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TOPIC: Who is to blame for the current economic problems