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The real problem : Swingers Discussion 1139461051
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TOPIC: The real problem
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My wife's sister: 3 cash-out refis and a bankruptcy between 2003 and 2006. Bought a new house just before walking away from the old. Stuck banks with over $80K loss on the house and $30K in the bankruptcy.

Co-Worker: Peak of the bubble, owned 4 houses, 3 rented out at a loss but making money through regular increases in HELOCs. Has now let 2 of the houses go back to the bank, and thinking of stopping payments on the 3rd.

Sister: 4 properties. Trying to get into a new place to let the old ones go. Fortunatly, can't get a loan. Husband had been working as a "flipper" and is now trying to find work as a civil engineer, but little work right now.

Wife's co-worker. Owes $500K on 3 mortgages on a house now worth $350K. Stopped makling payments.

Another of wife's co-workers: Unknown amount of debt on her house, but $100K negative equity. (so probably owes $350K as I guess their house is down to $250K). Husband "owned" a tiling laying company employing upto 6 illegals at teh peak of the boom, but is now down to just him and scrounging for work. Trying desperatly to sell their huge truck, the toy hauler, the quads, the jet skis...

House down the street from me. Sold twice in 2006, 90 days apart, for $80K diffference with little to no work done. No sits empty owned by US bank. When the former "owners" moved out, they even took the garage door.

House across the street... Sold at the peak for $270K. Comps now give it a value of $190K. Owned by a single mom with an ARM due for first reset in November. I don't expect many payments to be made after that.

Taxable retail sales in PHX metro? Off 10% from last year, and falling like a rock. Unemployment soaring. Based on school enrollments, people are bailing out of the city/state. Highest vacancy rate on record and climbing. Still, developers that horridly overpaid for property are desperately trying to move forward with condos, shopping centers, housing, etc.... They overpaid for the land by at least 100%, and they are desperate to do something, anything with it.

Unfreeze the credit markets and we just delay the crash that is inevitable, and make the problem all the bigger for when it does arrive.

Glendale AZ
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Both parties are fully to blame for this.

1) The banking industry provides HUGE sums of money to both parties.

2) Neither party wants to deal with Social Security going into a negative cash flow where it is adding to the deficit instead of subtracting from it. The hope was they could make the economy grow fast enough to avoid having to deal with the deficit and pending Baby Boomer retirements.

Both parties pushed deregulation. Both parties catered to the bankers. Both parties were willing to do whatever necessary to keep the economy growing.

We cut the '91 recession short by throwing cheap money at it, and transformed a $100 billion problem into a $1 trillion problem in the recession of 2002-2003. We then cut that recession short by throwing more cheap money at it and transfomed it into a $5 trillion problem. And what is the goal now? To cut the current recession short.... and transform it into??? $10 trillion problem?

Glendale AZ
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Going very much against the media meme that the current financial crisis is all George W. Bush and the Republicans' fault, Bill Clinton on Thursday told ABC's Chris Cuomo that Democrats for years have been "resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac".

Whether he knew it or not, Clinton was going against virtually all press outlets that have been pointing fingers at Republicans since this crisis began, and likely much to the dismay of such folk actually agreed with a Fox News segment aired on Tuesday's "Special Report"

ANGLE: And so shaky mortgages spread throughout the system. But in 2005, the Senate Banking Committee, then chaired by Republican Richard Shelby, tried to rein in the two organizations bypassing some strong new regulations.

WALLISON: Which would have prevented Fannie and Freddie from acquiring this bad -- these bad mortgages. It actually gave a new regulator for Fannie and Freddie the kinds of powers that a bank regulator had.

ANGLE: All the Republicans voted for it. All the Democrats, including the current chairman, Senator Chris Dodd, voted against it, and that was after Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan had issued a stark warning to senators that Fannie and Freddie were playing with fire. Greenspan said without stronger regulations, "We increase the possibility of insolvency and crisis. Without restrictions on the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, we put at risk our ability to preserve safe and sound financial markets in the United States."

Spencer TN
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"AND why.... What is the goal of the $700 billion? To unlock credit markets so that those living above their means can continue to do so at your expense. "

Yes, and unless the thinking of the everyday citizen changes---less than 10 years we will be revisiting this situation again. Unless, people started saving and living within their means then our entire country will continue to be built on debt. You can't do that forever without it collapsing eventually.

Battle Ground WA
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"Good thing our favorite hobby, sex, isn't too expensive."

Oh yeah? Well, maybe not the act itself, but driving that SUV to the club and back can run up the bill. We have actually cut back on seeing pals who live some distance away. I think I'll ask around the neighborhood to see if anyone is interested in a car pool...or maybe get a conversion van for cruise and screws ...

Charlotte NC
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"As to Bush, you're certainly entitled to an opinion, even if you are wrong :). "

9/11 was a trap, and Bush jumped into it with both feet. Bin Laden's goal was to get us into a war of occupation without end, and bankrupt us, JUST as he did with the USSR. Bush fell for it hook, line and sinker.

He lied, blackmailed and bribed anyone he needed to get get what he wanted. The worst kind of politics.

He lowered taxes during a war, ignored federal budget deficits and international trade deficits.

He lead from his dogmatic, and highly flawed, beliefs while ignoring all data to the contrary. Simple answers to appeal to simple minded people that don't want to be confused by complex information.

He lead us to the path of ruin....

Worst president ever....

Sad, since I think his dad is one of the best ever.

Glendale AZ
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"WTF? What did I do to you Glen that you are attacking me? Are you okay?

Obviously you wont see how anything relates to what I say, you're notorious for attacking people w/o provocation."

Without provocation??? Seriously?

Glendale AZ
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dspghcouple, you still miss the point. Some people went out and had a great time by spending far more than they earned. Now the government is going to make you pay their debt.

Any money you have in the bank, will quickly lose purchasing power as the government stimulates hyper-inflation by printing all this money out of thin air.

AND why.... What is the goal of the $700 billion? To unlock credit markets so that those living above their means can continue to do so at your expense.

Glendale AZ
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PG had an amusing anicdote, then said this: "But I do agree for a lot of people the amount of credit they have and use is a huge problem. America in general tends to live well beyond its means, by use of credit and it is not a good thing."

I don't see how your post makes any sense in regards to this summary to her post.

As far as not believing Bush is the worst president... well, you are wrong.

Of course, I can see how you would relate to the man. He first makes up his mind, then ignores all facts to the contrary... just like you.

Glendale AZ
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And, for the record, Bush Jr is the worst president ever.

Glendale AZ
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TOPIC: The real problem