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The real problem : Swingers Discussion 1139461041
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TOPIC: The real problem
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Glenale : so I take it those whogo around and buy now when the market is down or in the near future as prices lower would be just as wrong for investing in such ways? dont hate those who have the ability to invest in tangible items the real estate market will come back thre is no doubt about it.

If you want to show disdain towards anything go after those who invested in such things as tech stocks, in internet companies or companies that really have no tangible item to own other than true speculation of use .

Burlingham NY
 
 
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I for one beg to differ on those who flip houses for money the are not the ones really to blame for the problems with the economy, so much as those who live life trying to impresswith items by buying items they cannot afford. to blame those who do such ( flip) for the current state of the housing market or woes of the banks etc .is kind of assnine. it is like blaming the woes of the economy on people who didnt over extend themselves on home loans , or put mony away or a rainy dayinstead of in luxing it into the economy

Burlingham NY
 
 
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"And you're certainly welcome to your opinion, even if you're wrong."

While flipping, did you own houses? Does owning a house increase demand? What happens to price when demand increases?

Are flippers now getting out? What happens to demand then? And prices when everyone is selling?

Flippers are EVERY bit as much to blame as anyone else, driving up prices to unaffordable levels, participating and profiting from a Ponzi, doomed to crash and leave mountains of debt that is doomed to take us to the brink of finaicial ruin.

But of course, you aren't into "looking deeper" into a complex situation. You are all about "my mind is made up, and I have no interest in listening to facts".

Next time you want someone to blame, look in the mirror.

Glendale AZ
 
 
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"I'm not sure freezing the credit markets solves these problems. We need credit to expand the economy. We need credit to educate our children."

We've already increased consumer debt from $4 trillion to $14 trillion in the last 15 years. 180% increase in per household debt on 20% increase in incomes. How much debt is enough? How much debt is too much?

In my opinion, what we need now is LESS consumer and business debt, not more debt.

Shutting down the debt is EXACTLY what we need. We need to live within our means and start paying down debt.

But without debt, the economy can't functions.... AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

Glendale AZ
 
 
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". Flippers are business people, they buy and sell, it is the responsibility of the purchaser to do the math and figure out if they can afford it."

The Realtors were just doing thier jobs.

The Appraisers were just doing thier jobs.

The loan originators were just doing their job.

The loan securitizers were just doing their job.

The regulators were just doing thier job.

The government was just doing their job.

The buyers were being lied to by everyone.

If you were flipping, you were creating false demand, and you are JUST as guilty in this disaster as anyone else that was just doing their job, making money while the making was good.

I stand by my earlier statement. Next time you want someone to blame, just look in the mirror.

Glendale AZ
 
 
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As John McLaughlin would say:

"The answer is, SPECULATION"

Got to regulate that a bit, at least to end the use of credit in that marketplace. Easy money encourages extremely risky investment. Big businesses have been encouraged and emboldened by the ease with which they can restructure, divest, claim bankruptcy and most importantly come to expect the government to come and bail them out when they fuck up. This whole exercise only serves to reinforce that notion. Look at the airlines, auto manufacturers, the S and L's. What message does our government send to big business? How is that distinctly different from that it sends to an individual facing a similar finacial situation?

Nanjemoy MD
 
 
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Unfreezing the credit market won't help everyone. The banks are going to keep tight qualifying restrictions on those loans so we aren't in this mess again down the road. People that have defaulted on loans will be S.O.L. when it comes to qualifying for purchasing another house. Easy money will be history. On those of us that have maintained an excellent credit rating will be able to take advantage of the new financial environment. I hope that if this bailout includes some type of a fix for citizens that have mortgages in jeopardy that they are able to adjust their mortage so they can afford it BUT it will show on their credit rating so in the future iit will make it much harder to qualify for future homes. They will have to rebuild their credit history to show faith to the market that they will be trust worthy in the future.

Mountain Ranch CA
 
 
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We don't know anyone that has defaulted on any loans or that was doing any flipping. However, after reading about all these people and their mentality on defaulting debt...this country is going to reap what it sows. As long as a huge chunk of American believes over extending themselves and defaulting is okay...they will take everyone down with them.

Do these people that default ever think about their long range futures? Do they not care about their future quality of life?

Mountain Ranch CA
 
 
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"We did [make a lot of money]well when we were flipping"

"I looked at her and flat out said 'You are the reason why we are in this shit hole right now'"

If you were flipping houses, you are a huge part of the problem too. Flippers created artificial demand and was a HUG factor in the huge run up in house prices that is the primary factor in the bad debt.

Next time you want to blame someone, just look in the mirror.

Glendale AZ
 
 
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Poly: we have friends and associates who have done the same or worse who will also cry about how bad off they are yet coem by a day or two later with proclamtions of foolish new purchases on new cards or store accounts yet to hear the sobs about weeks or months later. I will not offer advice nor express any comment to friends who mention such calamities as above as it usually falls on deaf ears. now we just nod .

now we are not debt free , just a mortgage ,we learned our lesson in the early 90's . when the housing hit us then, this one was easier for us to see after our first hit, this one we were a little better prepared.

I read ( somewhere) long ago that people should have enough money or (access to) to carry them for @ 6 months in case of loss of work , sickness etc.... many people we know wouldnt make the weekend. it is really sad, and with winter comming it will only get worse.

Burlingham NY
 
 
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TOPIC: The real problem