Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds: Swingers Discussion 2006661075

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Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds: Swingers Discussion 2006661075

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds

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User Details are only visible to members.	Trust is a very personal things. Sometimes a person just allowing someone to love them or love back requires them to find almost extraordinary trust. I think my point was the exact opposite again of where you seem to be going, i.e., BDSM requires MORE, more trust, more love, is more complex. Again, trying to up sell one lifestyle and down sell another. Perhaps the lifestyles seem at odds because some people think of themselves as better or more evolved. The same way some in the lifestyle think if they are in an open relationship that they have evolved and look down on others who just haven't made it to their level of sophistication and trust. PLEASE, I recall the Steve Martin old line about how, I treat everyone equally no matter how much better I am than them. Trust is a personal thing, perhaps the level of trust is the same, but a couple has achieved the lifestyle they want and aren't just waiting around to evolve. I have no doubt BDSM relationship are complex and have interesting dynamics. I think its wonderful to hear about these complexities and difficulties in forging something lasting and the many variety of these relationships. Perhaps the BDSM community and the LS community need to each listen to each other a little more and be less judgmental and try harder to understand what difficulties each have. The question may be why bother? In my mind, because there is an intermingling and their are people in both LS that might have a lot to share and there may be commonalities and opportunities to explore.
Oklahoma City OK			Username hidden (214 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Of course trust is involved with all relationships. However in swing the trust is easier to come by. The expectations of both parties is fairly simple. In bdsm it can be much more complex. If a woman is going to allow someone to tie her up and blindfold her, for example, and then do whatever, requires trust and or familiarity that is deeper than just having sex with someone. It seems that swingers often are put off because it appears like abuse or that women must be doormats to be treated like that. Even mild bdsm play can freak out even liberal swingers. It's a challenge for them to accept that this behavior is consensual and desired. It seems so un-PC and counter intuitive. At least until one experiences it. We revealed ourselves to the swingers by teaching and demoing and inviting others to group play which seems safer and less intimidating. That has allowed those who are interested to approach us and we work with them at their level. We don't expect them to play or understand all that we do, so we start slowly and go from there. That has been our most successful method of combining both swing and bdsm.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (85 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	I don't see a reason to negative sell either lifestyle as the reason why the groups are at odds. The things we share are greater than what sets us all apart. Words like : "BDSM about trust and Swinging about thrust" rhyme and may sound like it shares some truth, but it seems really just plain derogatory to swingers in stating that trust is not a part of the lifestyle. I hear many describe BDSM in ways that tell us that they share many of the same high levels of communication that devoted couples in the lifestyle do. A level of communication and trust that is hard for many people, in and out of the various lifestyles to achieve. We know vanilla couples that have wonderful and abiding marriages and we have no reason to deride the path they've taken, they love and are going through the journey together. With that said, we've always been interested to meet and see BDSM couples. It is a shame that the level of trust between the communities is so low. The lifestyle has some great clubs and facilities, as perhaps they might in the BDSM world. We're both communities that have to remain isolated and fly under societies radar. Every once in awhile we've been honored to see a couple share their style of play and their relationship dynamics. I think sharing that sort of openness is more of what we need: from both sides. Perhaps some LS couples being invited to a whatever BDSM consider house parties and visa versa. OP made some good points about how they felt about the various and communities and why things seemed at odds. I assume the reason for the post was meant to open the dialogue. Or perhaps I got it wrong and its just a thread to put down those in the LS and in some odd way lift up those in the BDSM community?
Oklahoma City OK			Username hidden (214 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	My guess is that maybe 10% of the swinging women are interested in bdsm. I think the men are more wary. Some are freaked out because it seems so un-PC and too similar to abuse. We have found that by introducing mild bdsm we have found the women who would like some attention. It is a slow process but it has been mutually satisfying. Our newsletter BDSM + Swing = More Fun has been a useful way to give beginners something to consider. Trouble is that the newsletter function on this site is pretty bad. You have to request an invitation but it has served a purpose.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (85 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Jason685 -- I think your slave summed it up well. Also swinging a lot of times is about drinking. Alcohol places a large part in swinging to loosen people up so that they lose control. However with BDSM if someone loses control people could end up in the hospital, scarred mentally or physically for life or dead. I think a lot of swingers also have misinformation about bdsm. They don't understand that hair pulling, securing hands or legs, ass slapping, demeaning sexual talk, hot wax.. are all peaks into BDSM play. Also another thing that will keep the two groups apart in "most areas" is the view of people. In bdsm you have Tops/scene tops that they are happy to find any bottom that they can play with it does not matter about their sex, shape, size or race. Where in swinging people are mostly looking for what they are attracted to. If the package isn't appealing they aren't interested in even having a conversation.. The hunt must go on. In the Richmond area it is dam difficult to locate HWP, attractive people that enjoy both worlds. One more difference is the mental aspect. The bdsm mental aspect of submitting to someone can be very over whelming and intoxicating. This can be very difficult to share that ...plus the sex with someone. It makes it easier to share one or the other, but more difficult to share both at the same time.
Charles City VA			Username hidden (22 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	My slave came up with a fairly succinct reason. BDSM is about trust. Swinging is about thrust. I thought that said it pretty well.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (85 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	In my opinion, to this day the best BDSM 'groups' are underground and do not advertise anywhere. You find out about them if you happen to meet someone involved that likes what you bring (read that usually as experience AND exceptional attitude) and invites you to visit with them. At some point you may be invited to the core group as well. In this, the community hasn't changed all that much since the 70's. These are just small groups of friends for the most part that have more trust between them than a swinging group normally would and keep their raks very close, even family-like. This takes time and a certain grace as in any social situation but the rewards, though slow to accrue, are well worth it. In today's instant gratification society this is a natural filter for these groups to the bullshitters and bad attitudes, and tends to simply reject them by exclusion. Those in that social group often have better places to share their kink/knowledge/playtime and thus even if you DO meet them in the same places/websites/clubs/etc as swingers, you may not know they are interested in bdsm beyond simple bedroom play. Also, due to the higher drama rates in the swing community vs the bdsm community, outing oneself as into serious 'play' pass-times can be a multi-edged tool. It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences. So, what's left for sites such as SLS, aff or alt in my opinion are the fringes. The newbies. The misfits and outcasts...and of course the slummers...lol. I freely admit to being every one of those at some point... Which one are you?
East Fishkill NY			Username hidden (2772 post)

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds