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Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds : Swingers Discussion 2006661068
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FORUMSGeneral DiscussionsBDSMMaybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds
TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds
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“Dominant is what you are, a personality, you either have it or you don't. You can not switch it on and off.”

You do love to beat on semantics and word meanings don’t you? Yes Sed, ‘Dominant’ is what you are. You can also ‘display dominance’, ‘dominate a person’, have a dominant personality and be in a ‘dominant position’ all without ‘being a Dominant’. I happen to agree with you, but I also know some pretty convincing switches… But again you state it as fact leaving no one an inch to disagree., and when and if someone DOES challenge you, you point to this 'definition' as a way to shut down any debate. See anything dysfunctional here?

“It has nothing to do with with general BDSM and everything to do with dominance and submission, which is where the thread has meandered to. “

I think you are attempting to dominate the conversation, but then that's your MO now isn't it? ---------------------------------

“It has nothing to do with Master or slaves or any labels, and everything with logic.”

Your logic. My logic says differently. Why is yours better, because you said so? ---------------------------------------

“We're talking about dominance and submission. Not a scene, not playing.”

To some they are one and the same. Who set you in place to make the rules and definitions? Another cobble in this long path of One Twue Way (TM) statements…

------------------------------

East Fishkill NY
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sigh) OK, let's get to it...

"Your reading comprehension skills have a problem as of late. Last night you accused VA of things that he hasn't said. Now you're claiming that I am claiming one true way? really? or are you still worked up because I pointed out to you that you are accusing VA of things that he hasn't said? :)"

Actually I addressed this in detail as I will this post of yours. Whilst you and he both like to make definitive statements about what should and should not be 'allowed' or 'tolerated' as well as 'judging' as you so kindly admitted to doing (yes, as we all do) you seem to dislike the fact that some here are willing to call you on your wording and your 'meanings'. But please, do begin with an attack statement as a preemptive strike, making it my fault because I can't read... Sometimes a clever tactic, but you overuse it a tad Sed

You state an opinion as fact leaving no one any room to disagree. This is a One Twue Way (TM) MO if ever there was one.

“If one is able to give control, then the one that the control was given to, is not really in control.

Control can not be given. Control is taken, just as submission cannot be conditional. Submission occurs in the face of successful dominance.”

This is your OPINION Sed, not a Universal fact even though you think it should be. I actually happen to agree with SOME of what you say here, but I will defend the right of others to disagree for themselves. You seem to NEED people to agree with you or ‘submit’ to your judgment of what it should or should not be. -----------------------------------------

“You describe a top and bottom interaction. There is zero submission when you are able to give or take control while in a bottom position. There is nothing wrong with it, it's just not dominance nor submission. It's enjoyable play for all who are involved. “

Again, your opinion and you have a right to it. You do NOT have the right to state it as a fact as you do here and elsewhere (not one single IMHO in the entire thread BTW). ---------------------------------------------------

East Fishkill NY
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I posted this months ago when I wrote this OP. Which one applies to you?

" It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences."

That last sentence is the one that so many here seem to miss....

East Fishkill NY
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"Now, I am married to another dominant male. He does not have the need to control or dominate by force or by any other oppressive measure."

But according to Sed submission must be seized, it cannot be granted. Why isn't Sed attacking you for semantic reasons as well as the others here?

I smell a fish....

East Fishkill NY
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It's a rare occurrence when you give me soooo much emotional, irrational fodder which to eviscerate your comments with Sed, and in one thread even! Oh goody! I've been pretty busy lately but I think I'll make time to truly deconstruct your comments for the fora to evaluate and come to their own conclusions.

Oh, I've copied them to my own hard drive so I can answer at my leisure, and you can't delete your comments after the Pinot wears off, as we have all seen you do...

East Fishkill NY
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At this point I am debating whether to respond to this hysterical woman who is slandering me for my opinion....

East Fishkill NY
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A dominant can use what he/she is to hurt someone, or can use it to care immensely for someone. It's the latter that makes for an exciting, loving, trusting, secure, "together" relationship.

San Antonio TX
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here's the rest:

Now: Now, I am married to another dominant male. He does not have the need to control or dominate by force or by any other oppressive measure. The difference? This man is confident in who he is. He is stable. He loves me. I trust him with every fiber of my being. He recognized that I am submissive from day one. Could he crush me with a word or an action or by ignoring me? Of course. But does he? No. This man is caring. Gentle sometimes. He knows he "has me," and I know he has me. It's a pleasure to be married to a man who is dominant and also secure in himself not to use it to oppress. He does, however, use it sexually as it pleases him. We can withhold, he can control, he can tell me to go get on the bed and spread my legs and not only will I blindly obey him, I will also become VERY turned on by his very command. It just is. It's not something I give him, nor can I take it back through any "safe" word. Since we both know who we are, we are so free to be ourselves. And that encompasses so many things. Because he loves me, he has my best interests at heart. He probably wouldn't even describe himself in this way.

As far as play goes, okay, there are variances of BDSM play that are appealing and are not. For example, spanking. He doesn't have the need nor the desire to inflict pain of any kind on me, but goes along and encourages others (he usually can pick those out) and will give the nod to flog, spank, etc., whatever. It's fun. it's just a fun aspect of sex play. And since we are who we are, those kind of things work out well.

If we have any problems in our marriage, it's because we may lose ourselves. For example, if I'm sick or have an injury, part of him will subside out of concern. That is really not him. When ourselves and who we are are sidetracked, say, by a death or illness, it gets confusing and we know that something isn't quite right with us. He backs off, which goes against who he is. We both isolated for a time after each of our mothers died within months of each other. We were not ourselves. And when that happened, I lost my foothold on the security of our relationship. And we've gone through a lot of talks and a coming together again and renewing what makes us "us." We know it inherently. It isn't something that can actually be turned on and off, or given or taken, or meted out. When it's sidetracked for any reason, we are simply not us.

I am not dominant. I can play at it for sex parties with women sometimes, but because it isn't me, I get the giggles and know I'm totally playing/faking it for amusement and enjoyment. He likes it when a woman will sexually take him by the hand and tell him, "I want you to fuck me," or some such. Who doesn't like a sexually confident woman? That's fun.

This whole subject can be confusing b/c we mix into it our ideas of D/s, of BDSM PLAY, of actually describing ourselves, of thinking it's a role to play and not an attribute of our personalities, of what makes us who we are. That's where the arguments come in in these threads. Simply, people are talking about different things, and will not understand those differences.

Gina

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Try telling the stranger who raped me at age 17 that he couldn't take what I didn't want to give.

Extreme example, but control is control. It is not a gift to be given. Here is my own personal experience with it. I am submissive. I am a submissive. Those are two different things, actually. One is a label, or a noun, or a title; the other describes my personality, is an attribute of my behavior and psyche. Sexual or not. Not sure that I would describe myself as meek, as I can be kind of bitchy.

I was married first to a dominant male. He controlled both sexually and materially, emotionally, physically, etc., not only what I did and how I did it, but also where I went and who I was friends with, what job I had and didn't have, etc. I became an abuse survivor. I was also raped byhim. And then, at times, I was very sexually satisfied by him. He controlled, or dominated by force, by demand, by threat, by instilling fear, and so on. He could also be very passionate. How confusing, eh? (more in next post)

San Antonio TX
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Ghost,

Your reading comprehension skills have a problem as of late. Last night you accused VA of things that he hasn't said. Now you're claiming that I am claiming one true way? really? or are you still worked up because I pointed out to you that you are accusing VA of things that he hasn't said? :)

At no point, not one time have I said that my way is the ONLY way. I'm pointing out that twisting words to advance your outlook are just that. You can't change the meaning of dominance and submission so that you can feel all cozy and warm about what you do.

It's like being a little pregnant, you are either pregnant or not.

Furthermore, I went above and beyond to explain my point, while I was being slandered with things that I never uttered.

But that's ok, I understand your frustration Ghost. :)

Rumson NJ
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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds