Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds: Swingers Discussion 200666101

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds

Created by: TheGhost_and_MrsMuir Original Starting post for this thread:
In my opinion, to this day the best BDSM 'groups' are underground and do not advertise anywhere. You find out about them if you happen to meet someone involved that likes what you bring (read that usually as experience AND exceptional attitude) and invites you to visit with them. At some point you may be invited to the core group as well. In this, the community hasn't changed all that much since the 70's. These are just small groups of friends for the most part that have more trust between them than a swinging group normally would and keep their raks very close, even family-like. This takes time and a certain grace as in any social situation but the rewards, though slow to accrue, are well worth it. In today's instant gratification society this is a natural filter for these groups to the bullshitters and bad attitudes, and tends to simply reject them by exclusion. Those in that social group often have better places to share their kink/knowledge/playtime and thus even if you DO meet them in the same places/websites/clubs/etc as swingers, you may not know they are interested in bdsm beyond simple bedroom play. Also, due to the higher drama rates in the swing community vs the bdsm community, outing oneself as into serious 'play' pass-times can be a multi-edged tool. It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences. So, what's left for sites such as SLS, aff or alt in my opinion are the fringes. The newbies. The misfits and outcasts...and of course the slummers...lol. I freely admit to being every one of those at some point... Which one are you?

Created by: TheGhost_and_MrsMuir
Original Starting post for this thread:

In my opinion, to this day the best BDSM 'groups' are underground and do not advertise anywhere.  You find out about them if you happen to meet someone involved that likes what you bring (read that usually as experience AND exceptional attitude) and invites you to visit with them.  At some point you may be invited to the core group as well.  In this, the community hasn't changed all that much since the 70's.   These are just small groups of friends for the most part that have more trust between them than a swinging group normally would and keep their raks very close, even family-like.  This takes time and a certain grace as in any social situation but the rewards, though slow to accrue, are well worth it.

In today's instant gratification society this is a natural filter for these groups to the bullshitters and bad attitudes, and tends to simply reject them by exclusion.  Those in that social group often have better places to share their kink/knowledge/playtime and thus even if you DO meet them in the same places/websites/clubs/etc as swingers, you may not know they are interested in bdsm beyond simple bedroom play.  Also, due to the higher drama rates in the swing community vs the bdsm community, outing oneself as into serious 'play' pass-times can be a multi-edged tool. 

 It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers  and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences.

So, what's left for sites such as SLS, aff or alt in my opinion are the fringes.  The newbies.  The misfits and outcasts...and of course the slummers...lol.

I freely admit to being every one of those at some point...

Which one are you?

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User Details are only visible to members.	Who is harassing anyone? Who called you a foolish girl, imprisoned...one who allows a man to abuse you? I never said anything close to that about you or anyone else What I said was that the "rules" of the scene simply mirror the rules of society, there is nothing mystical or magical about them There are universal "safe words"..."STOP and NO" Someone complying with them does not make them a wise and benevolent Dom, it keeps they from being charged with a felony. People who enjoy the scene should enjoy it, but lets be real, that's all I am saying.
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2556 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	If you do not like or respect the lifestyle of bdsm, why are you in this forum harassing people that happen to enjoy it? You are entitled to your opinion, but do not forget. You may think I am a glutton for punishment and foolish for enjoying what I do. But I am sure that if I were to dissect your life I would probably feel the same about some things you enjoy. To say that I am a foolish girl, imprisoned...one who allows a man to abuse me.....means you do not know me. I do not know what you know about bdsm, but you surely do not know me. I do not allow any person to abuse me, what i do I do because I love it, I respect it and it makes me feel wonderful, sexual and wanted. I do not say this because I feel you are owed an explanation. I merely hope to help you open your mind a bit and understand that your view is not the view of everyone. And what you enjoy is not what everyone may enjoy.
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23645 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Jason685 The sub gets to refuse "assignments" with impunity? The sub gets to contradict their Dom in public? The Sub gets to play with other Doms at will? I could go on, but you get the idea. Mutually agreeing to not be physically assaulted against ones will is a minimum requirement for any interaction, be the folks in the scene or not. Agreeing to give up control is not being in control, just because the perimeters you have agreed are in line with the penal code against unlawful imprisonment, battery and kidnapping....IMHO of course
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2556 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	IMHO, what you do is not swinging, and has nothing to do with the swing lifestyle." I do agree with this portion of your post. I have not seen much bdsm activity in swinging other than just fooling around or in the theme play rooms. And the couples who live the bdsm lifestyle do not really talk much about it. We know 2 couples like this...and if you met them at house parties, you would never know it. For us, same thing. If at some point we return to being more active in swinging, bdsm will not be openly .
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23645 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	No one suspended from a ceiling bound in shrink wrap blind folded with a ball gag is "in control" of anything, least of all the person or persons who put them there." I understand your comment. When I was in my 20s I was completely independent and would have agreed with this statement 100%. I was the one that refused to be told what to do...and to a degree saw this as a woman "wanting" to be abused. However, I had my first experience with bdsm with a wonderful dom. He was a good dom not only because he was naturally in control, but because he made it his mission to know how I felt about all sorts of things. It was important to him that he know what I thought. And to the "naked eye" you are right. How can one say that the sub is in control, when its my ass at the end of the slap. But I have to disagree with you...as illogical as it seems, it is true. The reason why it is true is because the dom never does anything the sub does not want done. I am not referring to slaves here, I am referring to subs. The D/s have numerous, detailed conversations where it is made very clear what hard line no's are, what no's are no's but open to change, etc. And almost all D/s have safe words. If I say "red" at any time...all stops. No questions, no pouting, everything stops completely. And that is power and control. My dom will never do anything if I have made it clear that I am uncomfortable with that. There are things that are open for boundary push, yes. For me, spanking is one. Jay can tell, some nights I love spankings and ask for more. And some days, it is ill advised. The sub really does have power in the relationship.
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23645 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	We are a bdsm couple who has played at hotel swing parties, where we teach and demonstrate simple bdsm play. Bedroom bondage. Simple ties and blindfolds. My estimate is that we were of interest to 10% of the women, who came to our glass, or participated in group room bdsm play or had private sessions. These women wanted a taste of bdsm. In general the men were only interested in observation. They did not want to learn even the simplest ways to incorporate D/s. This meant that I got to play with thei women, but the men had no clue what to do with my sub. And did not want to try. They did enjoy watching and making sure everything was safe. So there was enough interest that we were busy every hotel party. It was fun for us, even though the bdsm was very basic and most people we beginners and/or curious. Every once and awhile some with experience would show up. So I think there is room for some bdsm in swinging, but not a whole lot. It works for me because I like giving women their first taste of bondage and a blindfold. Show them how a cane can be their friend. Giving a woman something that has been onlly a fantasy, is very hot. Especially when a woman wants more than swinging provides. There is nothing better than bdsm with a loose woman. Can you say "BDSM + Swing = More Fun"?
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (83 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	A sub has control in the following ways: Sub gets to decide to 'play or not play' Sub gets to decide what are hard limits. Sub gets to stop scene at any time. Sub gets to decide to play again or not. Sub gets to give up control for the period of the scene. Giving up control is a big part of what D/s is. It is a choice to play and part of that play is giving up control. No one is force to play. It is consensual on both parts.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (83 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	All due respect to the B/D S&M D/s community, IMHO, what you do is not swinging, and has nothing to do with the swing lifestyle. The closest I brush up against this in our clubs is that we have a room in the Chicago venue with a swing and some lite toys, a fake flogger, paddle, etc, but it is all pseudo "scene". Frankly, to me it is a liability issue. As for the scene itself, I will only say that in the lifestyle, honestly is key, even to one's self. Again, with all due respect, methinks there is a lot of dishonesty that those in the scene have agreed to agree on. Before you say "You don't get it"...I DO get it. I fully understand the argument that "the sub is in control"...I know the sound bytes, and I know the talking points...but sorry guys...I'm not buying it. No one suspended from a ceiling bound in shrink wrap blind folded with a ball gag is "in control" of anything, least of all the person or persons who put them there. If you want to tell me you have gained enough "trust" in the Dom where you know he will end it before he hurts you, that is one thing, but if you believe that consent denotes "control" you are mistaken.,..just my 2 cents
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2556 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Oh yes. It takes so much time. But oh, is it soooo worth it.
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23645 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	You just cannot trust someone like the sub trusts the dom in an hour this is so true, and probably why there isnt alot of bdsm in swinging
Philadelphia PA			Username hidden (1413 post)

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds

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