Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds: Swingers Discussion 200666

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds

Created by: TheGhost_and_MrsMuir Original Starting post for this thread:
In my opinion, to this day the best BDSM 'groups' are underground and do not advertise anywhere. You find out about them if you happen to meet someone involved that likes what you bring (read that usually as experience AND exceptional attitude) and invites you to visit with them. At some point you may be invited to the core group as well. In this, the community hasn't changed all that much since the 70's. These are just small groups of friends for the most part that have more trust between them than a swinging group normally would and keep their raks very close, even family-like. This takes time and a certain grace as in any social situation but the rewards, though slow to accrue, are well worth it. In today's instant gratification society this is a natural filter for these groups to the bullshitters and bad attitudes, and tends to simply reject them by exclusion. Those in that social group often have better places to share their kink/knowledge/playtime and thus even if you DO meet them in the same places/websites/clubs/etc as swingers, you may not know they are interested in bdsm beyond simple bedroom play. Also, due to the higher drama rates in the swing community vs the bdsm community, outing oneself as into serious 'play' pass-times can be a multi-edged tool. It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences. So, what's left for sites such as SLS, aff or alt in my opinion are the fringes. The newbies. The misfits and outcasts...and of course the slummers...lol. I freely admit to being every one of those at some point... Which one are you?

Created by: TheGhost_and_MrsMuir
Original Starting post for this thread:

In my opinion, to this day the best BDSM 'groups' are underground and do not advertise anywhere.  You find out about them if you happen to meet someone involved that likes what you bring (read that usually as experience AND exceptional attitude) and invites you to visit with them.  At some point you may be invited to the core group as well.  In this, the community hasn't changed all that much since the 70's.   These are just small groups of friends for the most part that have more trust between them than a swinging group normally would and keep their raks very close, even family-like.  This takes time and a certain grace as in any social situation but the rewards, though slow to accrue, are well worth it.

In today's instant gratification society this is a natural filter for these groups to the bullshitters and bad attitudes, and tends to simply reject them by exclusion.  Those in that social group often have better places to share their kink/knowledge/playtime and thus even if you DO meet them in the same places/websites/clubs/etc as swingers, you may not know they are interested in bdsm beyond simple bedroom play.  Also, due to the higher drama rates in the swing community vs the bdsm community, outing oneself as into serious 'play' pass-times can be a multi-edged tool. 

 It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers  and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences.

So, what's left for sites such as SLS, aff or alt in my opinion are the fringes.  The newbies.  The misfits and outcasts...and of course the slummers...lol.

I freely admit to being every one of those at some point...

Which one are you?

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User Details are only visible to members.	IMHO, what you do is not swinging, and has nothing to do with the swing lifestyle." I do agree with this portion of your post. I have not seen much bdsm activity in swinging other than just fooling around or in the theme play rooms. And the couples who live the bdsm lifestyle do not really talk much about it. We know 2 couples like this...and if you met them at house parties, you would never know it. For us, same thing. If at some point we return to being more active in swinging, bdsm will not be openly .
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23638 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	No one suspended from a ceiling bound in shrink wrap blind folded with a ball gag is "in control" of anything, least of all the person or persons who put them there." I understand your comment. When I was in my 20s I was completely independent and would have agreed with this statement 100%. I was the one that refused to be told what to do...and to a degree saw this as a woman "wanting" to be abused. However, I had my first experience with bdsm with a wonderful dom. He was a good dom not only because he was naturally in control, but because he made it his mission to know how I felt about all sorts of things. It was important to him that he know what I thought. And to the "naked eye" you are right. How can one say that the sub is in control, when its my ass at the end of the slap. But I have to disagree with you...as illogical as it seems, it is true. The reason why it is true is because the dom never does anything the sub does not want done. I am not referring to slaves here, I am referring to subs. The D/s have numerous, detailed conversations where it is made very clear what hard line no's are, what no's are no's but open to change, etc. And almost all D/s have safe words. If I say "red" at any time...all stops. No questions, no pouting, everything stops completely. And that is power and control. My dom will never do anything if I have made it clear that I am uncomfortable with that. There are things that are open for boundary push, yes. For me, spanking is one. Jay can tell, some nights I love spankings and ask for more. And some days, it is ill advised. The sub really does have power in the relationship.
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23638 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	We are a bdsm couple who has played at hotel swing parties, where we teach and demonstrate simple bdsm play. Bedroom bondage. Simple ties and blindfolds. My estimate is that we were of interest to 10% of the women, who came to our glass, or participated in group room bdsm play or had private sessions. These women wanted a taste of bdsm. In general the men were only interested in observation. They did not want to learn even the simplest ways to incorporate D/s. This meant that I got to play with thei women, but the men had no clue what to do with my sub. And did not want to try. They did enjoy watching and making sure everything was safe. So there was enough interest that we were busy every hotel party. It was fun for us, even though the bdsm was very basic and most people we beginners and/or curious. Every once and awhile some with experience would show up. So I think there is room for some bdsm in swinging, but not a whole lot. It works for me because I like giving women their first taste of bondage and a blindfold. Show them how a cane can be their friend. Giving a woman something that has been onlly a fantasy, is very hot. Especially when a woman wants more than swinging provides. There is nothing better than bdsm with a loose woman. Can you say "BDSM + Swing = More Fun"?
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (83 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	A sub has control in the following ways: Sub gets to decide to 'play or not play' Sub gets to decide what are hard limits. Sub gets to stop scene at any time. Sub gets to decide to play again or not. Sub gets to give up control for the period of the scene. Giving up control is a big part of what D/s is. It is a choice to play and part of that play is giving up control. No one is force to play. It is consensual on both parts.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (83 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	All due respect to the B/D S&M D/s community, IMHO, what you do is not swinging, and has nothing to do with the swing lifestyle. The closest I brush up against this in our clubs is that we have a room in the Chicago venue with a swing and some lite toys, a fake flogger, paddle, etc, but it is all pseudo "scene". Frankly, to me it is a liability issue. As for the scene itself, I will only say that in the lifestyle, honestly is key, even to one's self. Again, with all due respect, methinks there is a lot of dishonesty that those in the scene have agreed to agree on. Before you say "You don't get it"...I DO get it. I fully understand the argument that "the sub is in control"...I know the sound bytes, and I know the talking points...but sorry guys...I'm not buying it. No one suspended from a ceiling bound in shrink wrap blind folded with a ball gag is "in control" of anything, least of all the person or persons who put them there. If you want to tell me you have gained enough "trust" in the Dom where you know he will end it before he hurts you, that is one thing, but if you believe that consent denotes "control" you are mistaken.,..just my 2 cents
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2533 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Oh yes. It takes so much time. But oh, is it soooo worth it.
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23638 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	You just cannot trust someone like the sub trusts the dom in an hour this is so true, and probably why there isnt alot of bdsm in swinging
Philadelphia PA			Username hidden (1413 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Sorry to be coming into these threads at the tail end y'all. I have not seen many couples that live the bdsm lifestyle mix that with swinging. We are very close to a couple where he is actually a mentor in bdsm and she attends munches in Austin...that is their way of life. I would love to be there some day. Anyways. They never mix swinging and that, we are one of the very few that even know they are in bdsm to that level. Most bdsm'ers, in that capacity, are monogamous. The D/s relationship takes time, its a growth and trust process that you just cant have in a house party scenario. You just cannot trust someone like the sub trusts the dom in an hour. Now, its fun to play around with toys and little crops and floggers, teasingly...but the real topping is usually done in private.
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23638 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	We hope to help bridge the gap. Or at the very least give both a perfect place to play. Coming from BDSM background AND good friends with swingers over the years, our house parties every weekend will accommodate BDSM on Fridays and Swingers on Saturdays. All guests can use the whole house. So.. perhaps some swingers will venture into the dungeon and use some of the equipment? Or a D/s couple will end up using one of our bedrooms for what is sometimes a by-product of BDSM - - -> "sex"...Don't 100% know what will happen. But my honey helped to build the A2 SpeakAZ (swinger club which is gone now) and it was known as the A2 Reformatory on opposite nights (Swinger/BDSM club) .... So... maybe bridging the gap won't be too difficult. We're all just trying to get our kink on, right? (smiles)... Domina
Lincoln Park MI			Username hidden (1 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Hi Bi I think it was probably someone else you met as we have only be attending and teaching at Secrets for the past year. Never before that. As for playing with others, we have always done that with couples. Sometimes both parties are interested in the bdsm and sometimes the men just like to watch, or they may play with my submissive but in a more conventional swing type play. Sometimes the men want to learn and sometimes not. But we always encourage their participation. Our goal is to help others develop their kink as part of their own personal dynamic. That's part of our fun as well.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (83 post)

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds

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