Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds: Swingers Discussion 200666

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds

Created by: TheGhost_and_MrsMuir Original Starting post for this thread:
In my opinion, to this day the best BDSM 'groups' are underground and do not advertise anywhere. You find out about them if you happen to meet someone involved that likes what you bring (read that usually as experience AND exceptional attitude) and invites you to visit with them. At some point you may be invited to the core group as well. In this, the community hasn't changed all that much since the 70's. These are just small groups of friends for the most part that have more trust between them than a swinging group normally would and keep their raks very close, even family-like. This takes time and a certain grace as in any social situation but the rewards, though slow to accrue, are well worth it. In today's instant gratification society this is a natural filter for these groups to the bullshitters and bad attitudes, and tends to simply reject them by exclusion. Those in that social group often have better places to share their kink/knowledge/playtime and thus even if you DO meet them in the same places/websites/clubs/etc as swingers, you may not know they are interested in bdsm beyond simple bedroom play. Also, due to the higher drama rates in the swing community vs the bdsm community, outing oneself as into serious 'play' pass-times can be a multi-edged tool. It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences. So, what's left for sites such as SLS, aff or alt in my opinion are the fringes. The newbies. The misfits and outcasts...and of course the slummers...lol. I freely admit to being every one of those at some point... Which one are you?

Created by: TheGhost_and_MrsMuir
Original Starting post for this thread:

In my opinion, to this day the best BDSM 'groups' are underground and do not advertise anywhere.  You find out about them if you happen to meet someone involved that likes what you bring (read that usually as experience AND exceptional attitude) and invites you to visit with them.  At some point you may be invited to the core group as well.  In this, the community hasn't changed all that much since the 70's.   These are just small groups of friends for the most part that have more trust between them than a swinging group normally would and keep their raks very close, even family-like.  This takes time and a certain grace as in any social situation but the rewards, though slow to accrue, are well worth it.

In today's instant gratification society this is a natural filter for these groups to the bullshitters and bad attitudes, and tends to simply reject them by exclusion.  Those in that social group often have better places to share their kink/knowledge/playtime and thus even if you DO meet them in the same places/websites/clubs/etc as swingers, you may not know they are interested in bdsm beyond simple bedroom play.  Also, due to the higher drama rates in the swing community vs the bdsm community, outing oneself as into serious 'play' pass-times can be a multi-edged tool. 

 It can be fun to talk with newbies and offer grounded opinions, but it can also attract a difficult element of drama, forum queens, One Twue Way (TM) proselytizers  and frustration of having to function in unmoderated spaces where trolls are allowed, nay encouraged, to begin flame wars over the most minute ideological differences.

So, what's left for sites such as SLS, aff or alt in my opinion are the fringes.  The newbies.  The misfits and outcasts...and of course the slummers...lol.

I freely admit to being every one of those at some point...

Which one are you?

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User Details are only visible to members.	I don't have contempt for the whole community, I don't even have contempt for you, why would I ? Everyone has an angle Jason, you have yours, I have mine. You are the one who got hostile...until your post before last, I thought we were having a discussion. I don't "object" to what you do for a second, and I would battle to the death anyone who would try to deny you the right to do it at will. Talk to V, talk to Mike, talk to Dillon, talk to Michelle, talk to Dex, talk to any of crew from the old "secrets", or for that matter, the old crew who used to meet up at "wildlife" in Janesville and use their dungeon. I have known them all since before you knew they existed, ASK them who I am and ask them if I have "contempt" for those in your scene. I have had flogging demos at my clubs, and I have people in the BDSM scene as VIP members. ALL I am saying is 3 things, noneof which you or anyone else should find offensive 1. Your rules, vocabulary, buzz words, catch phrases, and the hoops you all jump through are just too much to remember and too much work for me to find erotic. It's all just too much Renascence Fair stuff to me...just my personal opinion 2. I "get" your argument and contention that the "Sub is in control" What I don't buy into is the fact that a sub is NOT IN ANY MORE control than someone playing OUTSIDE BDSM, and yes, I take a bit of offence when people try to imply they do. Like it of not, "Ask before touching-No means No" is every bit as sacred binding and mandatory as SSC 3. What you folks do is what you folks do, and if you really want people to respect it, cut the pretense and just call it what it is. Jason, we got called to a "summit" a few years back at the SinCenter, all the major players in the lifestyle club scene and the BDSM scene in Chicago/State Line/Wisconsin were there, and the purpose was to sell the swing clubs on opening up to BDSM. It failed miserably Why? Two things A. We had to sit through an hour of lectures about how much more enlightened BDSM people are than Lifestyle people and B. The bottom line was, we make money, they don't, and they wanted a piece of our action. No thanks... That's all I'm sayin...
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2614 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	PP Ouch. I guess I don't know who you are, and happy to be that way. I don't associate with people who think like you. At least I was out front about what I do and what I think. Thanks for revealing your true thoughts. Speaking of asking for a fight, you are fine with trashing a whole community for which you cannot conceal your contempt and think no one should be offended? You call your words humble but they are anything but. Now we all know what you really think.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (88 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	One last thing Jason...I tried to be civil, but you seem to be spoiling for a fight and bent on insult…so here ya go It appears I have you at a distinct disadvantage...I know you, but clearly you have never connected the dots as to who I am. We have many mutual friends, I have seen your "demos" at V's and Mike’s and we have even spoken briefly. Be offended if you like, but when I see and hear, not only your demonstrations, but virtually any I have seen, all I can think is that if those poor saps who buy into your con job had encountered the Steam punk community before the BDSM community, they would all be walking around in aviator goggles and top hats. the munches and sloshes are like comic book and star trek conventions, only with sexual overtones. Your floggers, leather and butt are the sexual equivalent of super secret decoder rings. You and I both know the real motivation of the Dom Jason, (although I would NEVER expect you to admit it) and it has nothing to do with you wanting to mentor your partners to find their “inner sub”. I could go on, but I won’t, again, just know that the vast majority of us do “get it” which is why we in the lifestyle tolerate you folks, but think of you as little more than an annoying freak show. By the way Jason,, how is your 500 pound, sweaty, body odor reeking, chronic bad breath rapist buddy “Z” doing down in Florida since he was run out of Chicago?
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2614 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Jason...just for you...this is a GREAT commentary of how the "rest of us" feel rageagainstthemanchine.c om/2009/02/01/bdsm-the-sexual-equivalent-of-being-into-renaissance-faires-part-4-bullshit-posturing/
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2614 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Jason....here's a clue for you...Look at the title of the thread. LOL You see Jason, I am by FAR not the only one who calls BS on the long winded, pretentious, sanctimonious, flowery BDSM creed AS a matter of fact, I would venture to say a VAST majority people in the lifestyle would totally agree with me. Having said that...you have every right to live out your rape and torture fantasies, just know that most of us understand that that exactly is what it is.
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2614 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	lost_j1 ...for the 4th time..I DO "get it"...which is exactly why I call BS on the sanctimoney I responded to the OP, just like you and just like Jason. I have clearly stated my thoughts on the subject...what's the problem?
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2614 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	PP, I do not get defensive about anything. Trust me, I rarely take things personally...especially when I do not even know you. I have told you a few times, I give you the right to your opinion...so I do not understand why you claim that I am defensive. It does not matter to me what you believe, because if it makes you and your spouse happy, rock on. My observation merely is, if you do not "get" bdsm, or if you do not "buy it"...why frustrate yourself with coming in here and arguing with people that do "get it"? If you do not ever wish to engage in bdsm play or this lifestyle, fine. That is your right. But there are people that DO wish to discuss it in a peaceful manner. You just like to argue lol. At least admit that, you enjoy the argument.
San Marcos TX			Username hidden (23665 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	He argues the same way about all topics, he knows nothing, a complete ignoramus. But he's quite proud of it. He shouts the usual, about everybody agreeing with him and in full support of him, but no one ever is. Well with the exception of his poodle aka Gusher. I never encountered a less informed, less intelligent forummer than this atrocity! He's practically he laughing stock of the forum!
Colts Neck NJ			Username hidden (12302 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	PP I haven't seen anyone support your opinions, so until someone steps forward to agree with you, or defend your position, I'll stand by nobody. I'm willing to hear someone agree with you. Anyone out there that thinks PP has it right? You seem to have no trouble in your own mind defining all bdsm play and players yet you have no support that I can see from others comments. There is no outcome to like or dislike so what are you talking about? This is another example of you saying nothing. PP, you just wear people out.
Green Bay WI			Username hidden (88 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Jason. For you to say "nobody" you would have to speak for "everybody which you don't, far from it. I get it Jason. you just don't like the Outcome
Elk Grove Village IL			Username hidden (2614 post)

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TOPIC: Maybe this is why bdsm and swinging seems at odds

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