Finding a Balance: Swingers Discussion 43936

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TOPIC: Finding a Balance

Created by: XFrequentC Original Starting post for this thread:
I have no subject line as I start this because I'm not sure where it will go. I do know that I'm having difficulty with the D/s lifestyle due to the fact that I feel my sub is an unwilling participant. When I ask her, she tells me a 24/7 D/s lifestyle is what she wants and agrees to the terms set before her. However, only moments pass before these terms are ignored, forgotten, and abandoned. My interest in the D/s lifestyle from a Dominant stand point is only to help my sub grow to be a better person. At the moment I would like her to work on being more considerate of others and also to be more motivated. Sadly these are the same issues that I feel keep her from truly submitting. Her lack of motivation/laziness is what makes her submissive when it's convenient and her lack of consideration for others allows her to feel guilt-free when it happens. When I attempt to punish her for her insubordination I get a look from her like I'm insane and I'm often left feeling as though if I push the issue to hard I will, in time, lose her. At the moment I've returned to the basics. All I ask of her is to address me as Sir. and to post online once a day with the a numerical count and the phrase; "I am a collared sub". I am hoping that this will serve as a daily reminder of the commitment she has made to me. However, she's posted the line two days out of approximately 6 and rarely addresses me as Sir. I think after typing this all out I'm finding some clarity to the reason for my posting... At what point should I simply say; "This isn't working", remove the collar and lead a vanilla life? At the moment I already feel we are living this way. With the exception of the OCCASSSIONAL punishment nothing would change. I'd still push for her to become a better person but I would no longer be living with the delusion that she will except any means I choose to help her achieve this. I'm sure anyone reading this might be wondering what are the tasks I ask of My sub to complete, so here is a listing of just a few: - (In the beginning) Wear your hair down when you are out with me in public - She did this for a while and when she failed to she was punished and accepting of her punishment. [Note: some time later I collared her] - Write a submissive creed (Which I'll post in this thread as I think it will shead some light on her mindset) - once a week do something JUST FOR ME and mark it on the calendar - She was reminded on several occasions (about 15 times) and only did part of it once - Do all you can to get us on a schedule - I asked several times for this and made suggestions on how to do it but we (our family) still live in chaos. I am fair and will say that life does get in the way from time to time but when it doesn't we have nothing to return to. - For my birthday I would like EVERY room in the house clean - It wasn't - For my birthday I would simply like her to not create any stress for me. - Even after I emphasized how important this was for me many times and many days before hand she failed to do this and was punished for it. On this occasion she began by accepting her punishment but soon after and far before I was done she freaked out and demanded I stop. - Keep a list of things you accomplish throughout the day and keep it on you! - She did this for 2 days This list goes on and on.... Currently I only ask the things previously mentioned: - Address me as Sir - Once a day create a post that numerically counts the phrase; "I am a collared sub" and also: - Have a hair tie on you at all time. - This is the only one that she has made an effort to follow and does well at. [continued in the next post]

Created by: XFrequentC
Original Starting post for this thread:

I have no subject line as I start this because I'm not sure where it will go. I do know that I'm having difficulty with the D/s lifestyle due to the fact that I feel my sub is an unwilling participant. When I ask her, she tells me a 24/7 D/s lifestyle is what she wants and agrees to the terms set before her. However, only moments pass before these terms are ignored, forgotten, and abandoned. 

My interest in the D/s lifestyle from a Dominant stand point is only to help my sub grow to be a better person. At the moment I would like her to work on being more considerate of others and also to be more motivated. Sadly these are the same issues that I feel keep her from truly submitting. Her lack of motivation/laziness is what makes her submissive when it's convenient and her lack of consideration for others allows her to feel guilt-free when it happens. When I attempt to punish her for her insubordination I get a look from her like I'm insane and I'm often left feeling as though if I push the issue to hard I will, in time, lose her. 

At the moment I've returned to the basics. All I ask of her is to address me as Sir. and to post online once a day with the a numerical count and the phrase; "I am a collared sub". I am hoping that this will serve as a daily reminder of the commitment she has made to me. However, she's posted the line two days out of approximately 6 and rarely addresses me as Sir. 

I think after typing this all out I'm finding some clarity to the reason for my posting... At what point should I simply say; "This isn't working", remove the collar and lead a vanilla life? At the moment I already feel we are living this way. With the exception of the OCCASSSIONAL punishment nothing would change. I'd still push for her to become a better person but I would no longer be living with the delusion that she will except any means I choose to help her achieve this. 

I'm sure anyone reading this might be wondering what are the tasks I ask of My sub to complete, so here is a listing of just a few:
- (In the beginning) Wear your hair down when you are out with me in public - She did this for a while and when she failed to she was punished and accepting of her punishment.
[Note: some time later I collared her]
- Write a submissive creed (Which I'll post in this thread as I think it will shead some light on her mindset)
- once a week do something JUST FOR ME and mark it on the calendar - She was reminded on several occasions (about 15 times) and only did part of it once
- Do all you can to get us on a schedule - I asked several times for this and made suggestions on how to do it but we (our family) still live in chaos. I am fair and will say that life does get in the way from time to time but when it doesn't we have nothing to return to.
- For my birthday I would like EVERY room in the house clean - It wasn't
- For my birthday I would simply like her to not create any stress for me. - Even after I emphasized how important this was for me many times and many days before hand she failed to do this and was punished for it. On this occasion she began by accepting her punishment but soon after and far before I was done she freaked out and demanded I stop.
- Keep a list of things you accomplish throughout the day and keep it on you! - She did this for 2 days

This list goes on and on....

Currently I only ask the things previously mentioned:
- Address me as Sir
- Once a day create a post that numerically counts the phrase; "I am a collared sub"
and also:
- Have a hair tie on you at all time. - This is the only one that she has made an effort to follow and does well at.

[continued in the next post]

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User Details are only visible to members.	it was not my intention to upset You, i can certainly see Your frustration. this is also a difficult medium to communicate in at times. from reading zoes post, it seems she is very happy w/ You and is working to improve herself. power exchange is a massive responsibility and i can see You do not take it lightly. You took the first step is realizing there was a problem and if You are as committed as You seem, i am sure You will find away to solve it i can see some truth in all the replys here, dont take that as a negative thing- take it for what it is. sometimes those outside of a situation can see things that are too difficult for those involved to see.
Erie PA			Username hidden (8 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Craig/zoe: I have no problem with your anger. It was not my intent to provoke anger. You- yourself called your wife lazy, undisciplined, etc. It was not my intent to hurt zoe. It was my intent to point out that the creed struck me as a wish list. I wasn't sure of the feeling behind it but the behavior described seemed to fit the opposite frame of mind. Thinking about it further? My submissive creed? To please him to the best of my ability. Regarding punishment.. I would accrue cane strikes. He always asked me why I was being punished before he started. I hated being punished. I have done the exactly same thing. Posted an extremely complex example a behavior that was bothered me. It never was received correctly. I was jumped on...etc. I was going to respond privately however you put it out there. I still believe the issue has nothing to do with D/s. I only wish you happiness. Good luck. Mischief
Glen Burnie MD			Username hidden (2785 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Now it's my turn (Zoe) I honestly will probably get in trouble for this and it will be another showing of my disobedience because i was told not to read this. Craig feels the post has gotten out of control. I just want to offer more insight for people so they can get a better grasp of what is going on here. First let me say when i read the post that Craig had put i was infuriated. I was upset and felt disrespected that he would publicly say such negative things about me. I come off like some selfish child who cares about nothing or no one but herself. This isn't the case. As i explained to Craig last night everyone has moments and i admit i might have a few more selfish moments then others. I too however have times when i am extremely selfless, especially if Craig and i are in a play situation. Granted i need to learn to extend this to all points of my life. I want to note that i understand why Craig made this post. He was using it as an attempt to help me see. This like everything else in my life has a lesson to it. Now for some background on me and what i believe my problems are. I was in several D/s relationships before i met Craig. I was happiest when i was in those relationships. This is where the difference comes in. I entangled myself with men who didn't truly care about me. I hate the fact that i had no problems following the orders of men who cared little about me but yet i find it so hard to maintain a D/s relationship with my future husband. I am as troubled by this as he is. There are a few things that i believe could be factoring into my problems. I entered all my other D/s relationships knowing that is exactly what it is going to be. Craig and i met on vanilla terms. I mentioned that i am submissive to him one day and said that if he has any interest in that lifestyle i would love nothing more then being his sub. This is not something he forced on me. I believe if anything i forced it more on him. Obviously my past D/s relationships were not successful for one reason or another. Let me remind you that for the most part these men cared little for me when it came down to it. When i am clear headed i know that Craig does the things he does to help me better myself, BECAUSE he loves me. When it comes down to it though, while i am being punished, i have a hard time remembering that. The thoughts that go through my head are "If this man loves me how can he do these things." I believe a lot of this thinking stems from my past relationships. I have to give credit where credit is due though. When i first met Craig i was a sheltered, spoiled little girl. In D/s relationships and even vanilla most of the men i was with lived in fear or losing me. They babied me. They didn't want to ruffle my feathers so i had very little sense of responsibility. I was a slob, and had no idea how to take care of everyday responsibilities like paying bills, cleaning a house, and getting on a schedule. All these things were done for me. The only thing i could do was cook. Now i keep a cleaner house to the point where Craig doesn't have to get upset with me in order for me to pick up. I have taken over the responsibility of paying the bills and am desperately searching for ways to help get myself organized. (Just got a pocket organizer with hopes that carrying something like that with me will start me on my path to organization.) He is helping me to finally grow up like i should have so many years ago. To sum it up my actions disturb me as much as they do him. I want nothing more in life then to make him happy. Craig does so much for me. I want to be his obedient sub, i want to graciously accept my punishments for wrong doings. I hope this clears some air and we are able to get some constructive feed back. Sir i apologize for disobeying your command to not read the thread. 3. I am a collared sub. Zoe
Mayfield PA			Username hidden (910 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Sadly this in one of those times where it would take far to much time to post every variable that drove me to the very bad idea of posting this to the forums. It's late and I haven't much time so even this post will probably fall short of what I'm trying to say. I suppose what I want to say now is I'm angry. (And not with my sub) I feel everyone has missed the point. It's funny to read the posts and get the feeling that you all think I'm a borderline predator forcing my will upon others. (The BDsM equivilant of a stereo typical creepy swinging single male) I can honestly honestly honeslty assure you that isn't the case. In fact is completely the opposite. livewire68 - I appreciate you offering you're experiences but they are just way to far off base to apply to this situation. PolyGrl - What you've posted summarizes one half of my conflict. But I need to find how to do this and not look/feel like an aggressive asshole. (From my first post: I realize this isn't a black and white issue) I don't expect the answer, just inspiration from a new perspective. mischief - You know we love you right? But my knee jerk reaction is: What the fuck is this!? ("I am a submissive woman. Who is weak, and stupid.") Grrrrrrr ... Don't insult my woman! However, your buffer of "This is offered with the best of hopes for you both." lead me to belive that you know you rolled the dice and posted something that you feel is complex and if misunderstood could be interpreted incorrectly. Only because I know something's about do I get the feeling this is what I've done. (Short version: it's late, I'm tired and I admit I'm probably missing the greater meaning) Sadly, nobody here really knows me and I think the same holds true of my original post wildest_irish_rose - Simply, thank you. Sadly, I'm still angry. :( This is so much broader than I could ever express in these postings. But ultimately I find myself once again struggling with "why people do the things they do" and why I constantly feel I'm giving far far far more than I get in return for my efforts. That I sat here so long and considered everyone's feelings when most people would of simply shot back with something like: livewire68, Did you even read my post? PolyGrl, gee thanks. mischief, who the fuck are you to call my woman stupid and then paraphrase most of my original post? How does this help? wildest_irish_rose, do you think she's still be with me if I never gave her any positive reinforcement? And then just ended it there. (If your offended by the above, keep reading, and if you're still offended, you've missed my point ... sorry) But the mere fact that I didn't/couldn't do something like that Because I took the time to really try to understand what everyone wrote in reply Because I considered all the back lashes and ramifications of saying the wrong thing ... BOTHERS THE HELL OUT OF ME! I know I'm now going to catch all kinds of hell for this but for once... fuck it. I'm at a place where I'm trying to deal with the fact that I don't owe anybody anything and my patience is wire thin. On the road back from hell and ready to teach some lessons on the way, Craig "You get what you give and you should give what you get"
Mayfield PA			Username hidden (910 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	24/7 isn't for everyone. Even when it happens there can be conflict. That's why this is a constant learning process.
Center Valley PA			Username hidden (8495 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	i am new to the forums but id like to reply to your post. i was in a 24/7 Ds relationship many years ago when i was around your wifes age. like her i had difficulty adjusting, especially following through w/ His day to day requests. looking back i wonder why He allowed me to stay collared as long as He did lol. the relationship ended, i just wasnt able to do it, not through any fault of His, but due to what i thought were my own weaknesses. i realize now that i simply was too immature, i wasnt sure yet who i was and where i wanted to go w/ my life. i realize age is just a number but life experiences are a big part of what shapes us. i often deliberately disobeyed simply because i enjoyed the punishment. even though you are in a D/s relationship, its still a 2 way street, she CHOSE to serve you, what does she get from you? perhaps positive reinforcement would be helpful at times? also i have to ask, how do you react when she "freaks out and says stop"? is after care provided? just a few thoughts from a sub who grew up.... best wishes erin
Erie PA			Username hidden (8 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	“ I'd still push for her to become a better person but I would no longer be living with the delusion that she will except any means I choose to help her achieve this. “ This is very counter productive. Reminding her of her failures puts you with all the other men. It’s the same for the list of tasks. Suggest only one task. One she would already do. The task list is overwhelming when I’m depressed. I suspect it’s the same for her. “The problem is she only excels at the meaningless tasks. The ones that add value and substance to her life she puts little or no effort into and gets wild eyed when I attempt to punish her for it.” You continue to denigrate her for what she does. This confirms her greatest fear. That she is worthless, and can do nothing right. “I love this woman in a traditional way and this is what makes me fear punishing her for her failures. “ What makes you think you have the right to punish an adult woman?? One that is clearly not submissive to you. So my question is ... She is obviously unsure of exactly what she wants because her statements directly conflict with the majority of her actions, so would it be wrong for me to set the "balance" for both of us and stick to it no matter what? You will balance alone if you continue to think you are acting in a dominant way. You are not acting in a dominant way. She is not acting in a submissive way. There is NO D/s occurring. What is occurring has nothing to do with the scene. You have issues with her performance regarding life functions. She probably has issues with you regarding your way is the right way for her. Craig, I know you mean well. I know she means well. I feel you both need help getting on the same page. Your idea of her life may not fit her. I’m sure she is hurt by your pressure to measure up. I highly suggest counseling. I suspect when you both see the dance that is occurring has nothing to do with D/s that will only help the discussion. She needs to find her own niche. You need to excel in yours. My hope is that you can find common ground. Part II
Glen Burnie MD			Username hidden (2785 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Craig. This is offered with the best of hopes for you both. Mischief her submissive creed: Altered. I am a submissive woman. Who is weak, and stupid. I am a weak woman, with fluctuating views and a clouded concept of what i want out of my life. “When I ask her, she tells me a 24/7 D/s lifestyle is what she wants and agrees to the terms set before that I'm having difficulty with the D/s lifestyle due to the fact that I feel my sub is an unwilling participant her. However, only moments pass before these terms are ignored, forgotten, and abandoned. “ I serve out of shame or weakness, not pride and strength. I will look to my loving Master for guidance and protection, for never will i be more complete than when He is with me. (She needs to be complete on her own. THEN she is ready for powerXchange.) “To help my sub grow to be a better person. At the moment I would like her to work on being more considerate of others and also to be more motivated. Sadly these are the same issues that I feel keep her from truly submitting. (Snip) When I attempt to punish her for her insubordination I get a look from her like I'm insane” All I ask of her is to address me as Sir. and to post online once a day with the a numerical count and the phrase; "I am a collared sub". I am hoping that this will serve as a daily reminder of the commitment she has made to me. However, she's posted the line two days out of approximately 6 and rarely addresses me as Sir. A dominant’s only power comes from what the submissive gives up. What is not given is not under the dominant’s control. That’s why it’s a powerXchange. It is NOT your job to FIX her. Submission is a very active state. You can not punish for something you have not been given power over.. Talking about giving something is not giving it up. Using the words “hoping”“all I ask” are not dominant statements. “reminder of the commitment” she has never shown regarding the D/s. (She does not know what she wants, is unable to fix it, figure it out, and doesn’t know why the D/s isn’t working.) “"This isn't working", remove the collar and lead a vanilla life?” “ I already feel we are living this way. “ *Yes. Because you are. Part 1
Glen Burnie MD			Username hidden (2785 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Hi, it's me again... I don't like the tone of the last few post as it seems like a lot of blame shifiting and I just want to say that's not what I'm going for here. I'm not saying there is a right person or wrong person... I'm simply looking for a way to overcome a hurdle.
Mayfield PA			Username hidden (910 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	I had a feeling that even though the post had to be spread out over 2 windows I STILL didn't say enough. I'll try to keep this short but clear some things up: Being in a D/s relationship as well as a 24/7 D/s relationship was something she asked for from me. Prior to now I had never had a D/s relationship. She had been in part time and play D/s relationships in the past. She had made mention of poems, creeds and books that she had read over time that had inspired her. I asked her to make one that best summarizes her idea of what it is to be submissive and what you see in the that post is what she came up with.
Mayfield PA			Username hidden (910 post)

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TOPIC: Finding a Balance