Are you really a dominant if you cant control yourself: Swingers Discussion 57024

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Are you really a dominant if you cant control yourself: Swingers Discussion 57024

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TOPIC: Are you really a dominant if you can't control yourself

Created by: PolyGrl	The original post for this thread was deleted.

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User Details are only visible to members.	okay one last clarification. I DO think that power has to be given, it's why it's called power exchange. I do think however that the person who cannot master himself cannot exert control and mastery over others. Anyone who has been in the military will know what I"m saying when I say there is a BIG difference between giving orders and exerting command/control. NO I don't think that Dommes are Goddesses and perfect, but I think that someone who says they choose to overeat is exemplifying an addiction to food, one who is height to weight proportional ( not a stick figure ) shows control over their own eating. One who smokes may claim to choose to do so, but nicotine is more addictive to the human biochemical system then heroin and if I recall correctly by as much as one to two magnitude points. So smoking is an addiction, as are other drug addictions, someone who is addicted is NOT in control, the substance in question is overiding their ablility to exert control over themselves. Alcohol abuse shows a lack of control. It is the only area where I think there is any wiggle room because I do believe, unlike the other things listed, that alcohol for SOME PEOPLE, can be used in moderation. NOT in the context of a scene I dont' believe, ( it removes the ability to play safely, and if enough is consumed the ability to play consensually ). But I do think alcohol with dinner or in minor quantities at parties etc, can be used safely as long as a number of precautions are taken. I dont' think Dommes need to be perfect, heaven knows I'm not, but I do think that excerciing control over oneself shows an ability to exercise control over others, and the inability to exercise self-control shows an inability to excercise control over others. For Doode, I would say it is an AXIOM that one cannot play safely, sanely, nor consensually while under the influence of any mind-altering drug and that would include nicotine ( as well as alcohol, cannibis, and any of a wide number of neuro-inhibitive pharmaceuticals, halucinogens, etc ). Anyone who seriously doubts the influence of nicotine is WELCOME to contact me and I will gladly provide long, involved, and detailed discussion of the biochemical mechanism by which nicotine exerts control over the nervous system as well as refferences. These are proffesional level papers however and not for the feint of heart LOL. There I'm done, Je suis fine! ( I think I got that right LOL my french is rusty ). Rachael
Clovis CA			Username hidden (66 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Doode, I grant that one must give over power to another, but again you completely miss the point. I never said it didn't. I said it is an axiom that to control others successfully one must have self-control. I didn't say the one exerting control took it without consent. Try this analogy, I can hand you the keys to my car and say "Sure feel free to take her for a spin." BUT if you don't know how to drive a car, what good is it. You STILL can't drive the car. And if you are intoxicated ( by whatever intoxicant ) you cannot drive the car safely. Someone who cannot exert self-control cannot exert control over others, whether they give permission or NOT. I totally grant that the person who is submissive has to give power over, I grant that that is their choice to do or not, equally it is totally irrelevant to whether one has self-conrtol and equally irrelevant as to whether one can exert control over the person giving up power. Does that clarify my perspective and understanding of how this works? And PLEASE try to refrain from making personel attacks, I really DO know what the word axiom means. I don't use words I don't understand the meaning of except in situations of learning where I am requesting clarification as to their meaning. Next time if I'm using a word and you don't think I understand it, don't accuse me of not knowing or understanding the word, ask me to clarify my use of it, then explain yours. But by accusing me of not knowing or understanding the meaning ( especially in the manner in which you chose to do so ) you are acting in a demeaning manner toward me, by so doing you make this personel, in essence an attack upon my intellect, and that is NOT acceptable nor tolerable by me. I hope this point is being made abundantly clear. I have no problem with others having separate opinions, as long as they are based in fact. I have no problem in valid discussion of topics that are open to room for various opinions. There are areas however where there is no room for discussion. It is physically, mentally, and emotionally unsafe to play scenes with people who for various reasons are out of control. Especially if they are the ones acting in the Domninant role. And the FIRST word in the BDSM credo is SAFE. I don't say it is more important than being and staying sane and consensual, but it is certainly equal to the others and I believe each is an integral part of the others. I also believe that this thread is becomming far to contentious for civil discussion, so having made my thoughts, opinions, and understandings of the relationship between self-control and dominant control, I believe that while I may choose to read further replies, I hope to refrain from further discussion myself. I wish each of you safe, sane, and consensually rewarding play, regardless of the manner in which you seek to excercise it. Rachael
Clovis CA			Username hidden (66 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Dear Doode, you said ""Weaknesses"???? I think that's where you're erring, Poly. You see these as weaknesses, but they are factually not. "" I think that's where YOU are erring Doode. Doode, substance abuse of any form, be it food, alcohol, nicotine, or other pharmaceuticals, IS a weakness, you may choose to disagree, but then you can also choose to believe in lots of things that disregard facts and definitions. It is an axiom that to control others one must control oneself first. To succumb to substance abuse is inherent proof of lack of self-control. And as previously stated lack of self-control undermines the abillity to control others. No one as yet has answered how do people who claim to be Doms/Dommes expect to attrack submissives of whatever form if they cannot demonstrate self-control. I don't discount that sadists may find masochists without needing to demonstrate self-control, nor that bondage artists may find willing victims, but this question to my mind is a D/s question not a B&D or SM question, and as yet no one has answered it. My suspicion is that in truth in cannot be answered other then that they cannot realistically expect to do so, and this is why so many took offense to the question in the first place. They want to be able to tell others what to do, not justify their Dominance, and when someone points to a lack of integrity and says how can this exist, rather then answer honestly they get deffensive or offensive. The last is my supposition, it may be mistaken, but it is based firmly in the facts and in logic. Stay Safe and Stay Sane, Rachael
Clovis CA			Username hidden (66 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Hey Just_Like_Rabbits, A very special welcum to the forums sexy babes. Nice to see you in here. I knew you would like it here. Kisses and we shall chat soon................ RaveN ( :~
Fort Worth TX			Username hidden (8590 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Yes, Poly. That is what I am talking about. There are somethings that are people's weaknesses. It doesn't matter if your dominant or not. Our weakness, along with our strengths, make us human. If the weakness becomes a problem for the person, then the person will change (when hurting enough). What you may be perceiving as a "weakness" may not be for the other person or it may be, just not a problem for them. Carrie
Corpus Christi TX			Username hidden (16510 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Good question, Poly, and don't really think I have an answer. All I know is everyone has something/s they have trouble with. There is no one who can claim (and be for real) to not have something they have trouble not doing. That is what makes us human, IMO. Would you want to be dominated by someone who wasn't human? Personally, it is easier for me to submit to someone who isn't perfect in my eyes. When someone is perfect in my eyes it tends to bring out the dominate in me (or should I say bring it out more)when I am around them. Carrie
Corpus Christi TX			Username hidden (16510 post)

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TOPIC: Are you really a dominant if you can't control yourself