CAST YOUR VOTE HERE!!!: Swingers Discussion 30798

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CAST YOUR VOTE HERE!!!: Swingers Discussion 30798

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TOPIC: CAST YOUR VOTE HERE!!!

Created by: LoversNow4U2	The original post for this thread was deleted.

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User Details are only visible to members.	You are being a little to sensitive a-couple-in-pa. From what posts I have read of yours most of them I agree with. I think I said enough to clear up your confusion so I will accept your apology and apologize if you felt I was talking directly to you, but it was phrased as a question and not to be taken to personal! Happy swinging!
Brownwood TX			Username hidden (11440 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	4playlovers: Given that I was the only one to mention Bush Sr., Reagan, Rumsfeld, and Cheney supplying WMD’s to Iraq, you were obviously replying to my post. Right? I searched back 10 days of messages. No one else mentioned supplying WMD’s in the 80’s, Reagan, Rumsfeld, or Cheney other than me. You don’t have to mention someone’s name to be specifically talking to them. With comments like: “if we know how many WMD's (as you proclaim!)” “where are the WMD's that you so badly want Bush Jr to produce?” “I mean as a liberal you want to attack the Republicans but don't want to admit if they have a point!” You’re obviously responding to someone specifically. Right? I’m curious which post those comments were made towards if not mine. If it was someone else’s I’m sorry for the confusion. Please let me know which one so I can re-read it.
Bethlehem PA			Username hidden (104 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	a-couple-in-pa... What are you talking about me attacking you? I had to read my post twice and yours twice to see where I even mentioned your name? I asked a question and feel I made it perfectly clear that we were aware and fully documented all of the WMD's that were sent to Iraq in the 80's and 90's! I will spell out what I am trying to say for you, We know how many WMD's we sent there and Saddam claimed that he destroyed or used 1/3 of the WMD's that we gave him! That is a huge difference and the only reason (My opinion of course) that we have not reported this is the scare it would put on the American people if they knew how many documented weapons are really out there! Please re-read my previous post because you are the one attacking me saying you said something and I don't see your name anywhere in my first post! Maybe I struck a nerve or something that made you feel like defending yourself to me... (????) Lighten up!
Brownwood TX			Username hidden (11440 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	4playlovers: Reagan, Bush Sr., and Rumsfeld DID (not IF) give Saddam WMD’s. Cheney in 1997 and 2000, as CEO of Halliburton, DID sell $73 million worth of oil field equipment and services to Saddam Hussein. We sold Saddam many but not ALL the WMD’s he had. Some were made by Saddam. And many of them were used on Iran and his own people in Iraq. Some (maybe all) were destroyed. So it’s inconceivable (for me) to know how many he had left. I NEVER proclaimed we knew everything he had. Simply, we were the major factor in making him what he is. That is History. Like it or not. Please don’t incorrectly paraphrase what I said. And please don’t attack me. I also said, “it’s a fact that Clinton didn’t get Bin Laden”. Funny you didn’t attack me for that statement. If you would have read what I posted and not turned on the offensive, you would have understood. It’s pointless to blame Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, and so on now. “all that is History, which can not be changed. The present is what needs to be addressed.” Where are the WMD's that I so badly want Bush Jr to produce? LMAO “ I “ don’t want Bush to produce any WMD’s. Please don’t claim that I’ve said something that I’ve never said. The ONLY WMD’s Bush should produce, are the one’s HE claimed Iraq has. You must have me confused with someone else. As a REPUBLICAN (yes you read that right, come to PA and see my voter registration card) I don’t “attack the republicans”. Bush doesn’t represent all republicans.
Bethlehem PA			Username hidden (104 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	Atown: I never said someone is Un-American because they don’t follow my train of thought. Or that you were Un-American. Don’t know you well enough. What I said was, “It would be a shame to support something that isn’t right, just to give a warm fuzzy feeling to those in the field.” If you feel the action being taken is right, and you support that, that is a very American thing to do. If you feel the action being taken is wrong, it would be the American thing to oppose it and get the troops removed. I just found out last week my sister (A Marine) is being sent to Korea then to Iraq. She feels she’s helping her country. I feel we should get out of Iraq so her and the other troops can come home safely. We’re both American. Even a soldier, who swore to defend the country no mater what, can question authority. If you’re ordered to shoot unarmed civilians, I’d assume you wouldn’t follow that order. As far as evil Muslims living in the U.S., sure there are some. Probably closer to us than we think. And there are evil Christians too. Remember Timothy McVeigh? But not all 3 million Muslims here are evil, as someone else stated that ALL Muslims hate us. Rather than spending 60+ Billion in a futile war in Iraq, we should use that here in this country to find and remove the terrorists here. The office of Homeland Security was a great idea, but worthlessly implemented. Here’s some interesting numbers. 60 Billion dollars could hire 20,000 “homeland security agents”. That’s 4,000 for every single state, at $60,000 salary for 5 years. Imagine 4,000 agents in your state tracking down terrorists.
Bethlehem PA			Username hidden (104 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	- 1 of 5 - It’s rather funny how a political forum has resulted in a history lesson due to one mans inept ability to understand a quote from a person in history who understood what it takes to rule a nation. And yet from there on the true travesty is the assumptions and allegations, not to mention the misquotes from this very individual (Sea Wolf). As we all know ASSUMPTIONS, lead to making an “Ass out of you and not me” since their assumption is of what the person might of meant or said without asking them to clarify it better! Yet you said that your family from Italy called you to give you better insight on this matter and that there supposedly college educated in the fields of History or to be precise in Early Roman History. Yet as you said and I quote from you “One Aunt is a professor at Milano; 2 Uncles are college Coordinators of History College in Venice; and 3 cousinano's are college graduates of various Roman Culture!” Yet the problem here is, are they educated in the fields of the Early Republic or just in the over all history, which isn’t as in depth? This is rather vague as I’ve pointed out clearly concerning there expertise in their fields. And even I myself have fields of study such as Japanese History, The Early Republic of Rome and my main focal point Early American History which only strengthens my Political Science degree further! And yet your supposed family member that you quoted from said “They said, your DEAD WRONG; Brutus' family was the scrunge of Rome; They were all FAT-STUPID-LAZY and as Maria' comment was NOTHING BUT NO GOOD FOR ANYTHING ROME STOOD FOR; She studied Brutis' Family for years; and Italian History showed them too be just that; NO GOOD TOO NOTHING CEASAR WAS ABOUT.”. Now the big problem here with your source is that she’s not creditable at all as a Primary or even Secondary source! She never sited her source of information at all and as a History major she made the No.1 mistake that we all know not to do. This is to state something and not be able to back it up with a creditable source. And also she should know that as a historian you should be Objective and not Subjective in what you research. Though all your comments on her behalf point to her being subjective about the accounts.Yet if she’s saying all this above is true I’d like to provide a creditable source that proves her wrong. And I will state the source as well so that she and yourself, might take the time to read.
Fort Gordon GA			Username hidden (18 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	- 2 of 5 - {Marcus Junius Brutus was a descendant of Lucius Junius Brutus, the nephew of Tarquinus Superbus, the last king of against whom Lucius Junius Bratus is said to have led the uprising that ended kingship in Rome and established republican institutions. This Lucius Junius Brutus became one of the first two consuls under the Republic, and he is said to have put to death is own sons, who had attempted to restore the Tarquins. Marcus Junius Brutus was also the son of a half-sister of Cato of Utica and married to Porcia, Cato's daughter. This Cato of Utica was the great-grandson of Cato the Censor, who in his time preached a return to the simple virtues of the early Republic, and who was a man given to the uncompromising assertion of political principles. Also in the civil war between Pompey and Caesar, Brutus was on Pompey's side but that after the battle of Pharsalus in which Pompey was defeated, he was pardoned by Caesar, who made him first governor of Cisalpine Gaul and then praetor. We will argue that a man of this character--an unbending character (the 48 percent interest he charged on money lent to Salamis in Cyprus, to collect which his agent shut several prominent Salaminians in the Senate House and kept them there without food until some of them died, may illustrate this aspect of his character)--also aware and proud of his ancestors and what he believed they stood for, mistrustful of Caesar and his appetite for power, fearful of betraying his principles and his ancestors out of gratitude to Caesar, determines--and Caesar's benefits make him all the more determined--to kill the usurper and save republican institutions.}. By Kedourie, Elie Wilson Quarterly; Autumn92, Vol. 16 Issue 4, p112, 9p, 1bw Article ASSASSINATION BRUTUS, Marcus Junius CAESAR, Julius ROME -- History So as you can see Maria who should know better is in the dead wrong here since I’ve posted a sited source to confirm the noble history of Brutus here which she attempted to discredit. And yet to show more holes in your theories or to be exact your assumptions I’ll illustrate further with other sited sources here. You had also mentioned that no one ever would be stupid enough to use a quote from Brutus as well and yet it seems that his thoughts had influenced many others in generations to come as sited below as follows. {A succession of European rulers from Charlemagne to Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor from 1519 to 1556, shared the dream of reviving the Roman Empire in the West. Both Dante and Machiavelli imagined a new Roman Empire. Absolute monarchs such as Louis XIV portrayed themselves as new Caesars. Eighteenth-century republicans in the United States and France identified their new states with the Roman republic and identified themselves with republican statesmen such as Cincinatus, Cato, and Cicero, or tyrannicides such as Brutus.}. By Lind, Michael Wilson Quarterly; Winter2000, Vol. 24 Issue 1, p46, 14p, 5bw Article POLITICAL science GREECE -- Social conditions ROME -- Politics & government
Fort Gordon GA			Username hidden (18 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	-3 of 5- This is but a few of the major holes found in you and you’re family’s so called ideology and assumptions of history here on the matter at hand. And yet it’s purely funny how you try to claim that when Rome took over a country it Flourished? When was this and where as well, since all that Rome cared about was itself and gaining materials and goods from the outside world. And yet some how you made the correlation that the USA and Rome occupied the known world as stated here by you (Sea Wolf)” The known world was Jealous of Italians rulling them; as today the USA.”. Yet the problem with this false accusation is that we don’t occupy the known world unlike the Roman Empire did. Yet another problem I found was your so called “Italian Heritage Musiem's College of Articial Facts” where is it and why doesn’t it pop up on any search engine or national college reference as well? Though the best joke of all or misconception here, was as you put it a “Maximus Gladius”. Where and what were these weapons? Yet honestly I think you need to hit stop on your DVD of Gladiator since there was no weapon’s used or named as a Galdius Maximus, unless you’re referring to the Gladius that Maximus used. Yet you’re being very vague here in this aspect and also the use of a stiletto since that wasn’t used or invented until the late 18th Century. Keep in mind that a Stiletto is a spring loaded knife, exactly like a switch blade. And its very funny how you understand that weapons weren’t allowed in the senate for the most part yet you never listed the Pugio (dagger) which was reserved for nobility and officers as a status symbol and weapon. Of course then there’s the simple logic that you avoided in that, if people are going to plot an assignation ,you’d think that they’d circumvent the weapons issue and provide weapons! Also if some how this isn’t enough Cleopatra ,slept with Caesar to save her nation (Egypt). And also Screwed Mark Anthony as well to secure her position to rule her nation. Yet you avoided this subject entirely and just focused on how great Caesar was which wasn’t the case at all other then securing her position through sex and a joint heir against Roman Occupation. As for sharp sticks of Egyptian wood ? Why would Rome want wood from Egypt since ,Egypt didn’t produce or grow any large amounts of the product? An yet the raw materials of strong types of wood / lumber came from the North of Italy and to the Western half of the Empire like Gaul? So as you can see there’s another hole in your accusations or assumptions here that your family isn’t helping you out on! Of course if this all isn’t enough who’s your supposed eye witnesses here? The only man to write on all of this was Plutarch and he wasn’t even there but got his information from other secondary sources. Where as we History Majors like to view the pro’s an Con’s of the historical event and try to be as Objective as possible and let the facts from both sides speak for themselves an draw a conclusion. Its great too see that your learning outside of your realm here but the problem with that is people like you read only the things they want to that complies with what they feel and nothing that might oppose it. This is something that in Academia or college you don’t have due to the fact that your given both Pro’s and Con’s and yet you have to prove your stance on that subject, this is referred as being Objective and using Critical Thinking. And its this aspect that self learned men never get due to the fact that there’s no one to challenge them on thought!
Fort Gordon GA			Username hidden (18 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	-4 of 5- Last but least the biggest hole you dug yourself as quoted here “seems the Muslims' ruin ROME again: and You all don't see the connection here! ROME NEVER recovered from Ceasar's Death nor did it survive!”. As for Rome after Caesar died ,Octavian seizes power and pays the veterans more money to support him. He then changes his name to Augustus and conquers more land then his uncle (Caesar) had. Yet he was out done by Tiberius who conquered more then Caesar and Augustus combined and still continues to pay the Veterans of the Legion in order to have their support. So as you can see here this is but a few Caesar’s that kept going here so its safe to say the Roman Empire didn’t die with Julius, Augustus, I Cladius, Nero, Caligula or even Hadrian either. So this really puts a very big hole in your assumptions Sea Wolf! And yet to be honest the Roman Empire really doesn’t collapse till the 13th Century here. And if you think that’s wrong please read up on the Roman Civil War where the Empire divided into Western and Eastern Empires here. Yet you’ll have better luck in understanding it as the Byzantine Empire, though they considered themselves as Romans. So with the Byzantine Empire I hope this is where your trying to say the Muslim’s came in and destroyed it, because if not then your so very wrong about the Western half of the Empire. What collapsed the Western half was internal greed and constant warring with the tribes of the Gaul’s, Britain’s, Visigoth’s and Vandal’s and not to mention the Hun’s as well. So where’s the Muslims in all of this? The one thing that is agreed upon for Rome itself was had it of had a Constitution it would of survived but it didn’t and that’s something our fore fathers understood clearly. Second army’s don’t need to swear allegiances to their generals but to the nation itself. And last but least officers need to be moved around so that soldiers and themselves don’t grow strong bonds between one another and possibly get used to further the political ambitions of the officer in question.
Fort Gordon GA			Username hidden (18 post)

User Details are only visible to members.	-5 of 5- As for my last address here I’d like to point out that in the future you need to stop tossing out RED HERRING’S like your Maria and how people want to be here in this country. I never said that I wasn’t proud to be an American did I ? No… Yet I’m not your stupid American who’ll follow every so called flag waver and get misty eyed as well at the stars and stripes. I know the good things and the bad things that we’ve done to each other and towards others from history and the main point is to learn from it not hide it with more white wash and flags with a false sense of Patriotism hiding under Nationalism. Yet the main issue at hand is you not addressing prior posts and drifting off in other avenues of topic’s or rants like “ Maria and how people in Italy want to be American’s”. Honestly that’s great come over and try your best to fit in and do great, if you cant then try to better the place then it was before you got there! Though you have a point on one thing here we do supply more aid to other nations then any other country ,yet there are many country’s we don’t supply aid to do to the fact that they don’t warrant our interests in national or economics matters. Yet that’s life and politics isn’t it … An if by any chance this lights a fire under your arse I just want you to know please don’t list sources and site things from ( dot = com’s , net’s, novels ) but please use ( EDU sites, Journal’s, Periodicals, Books and the L.O.C = Library of Congress, dot = Org’s, Gov and National Historic sites ). As for me I’m tired of trying to lead a horse to water or in the attempt to educate since its like” Clapping with one hand” here. An the last time I checked this was a POLITICAL FORUM and not a HISTORICAL FORUM so lets get back to that here please. Plus I’m honestly tired of writing out papers here when I’m not going to get credit’s or a grade ,so I’ll leave this for college and consider this as my last bash for the history of Rome and the Republic!
Fort Gordon GA			Username hidden (18 post)

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TOPIC: CAST YOUR VOTE HERE!!!